From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Fri Sep 29 08:25:01 2006 From: "Dominic Ryan dominic.ryan::comcast.net" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: CCL rules Message-Id: <-32668-060929081853-31526-J2eiYHLNN7cRNuWjraQcSA%a%server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Dominic Ryan" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:19:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Dominic Ryan" [dominic.ryan#,#comcast.net] Indeed, I tried to convey this as well, perhaps not adequately. I think the topics merit airing and discussion. I would not want to see that, or either party silenced. In fact, I would argue that by more carefully avoiding an appearance of advertising the journal, the clarity and force of argument would likely be improved and I would like to hear that. Dominic -----Original Message----- > From: owner-chemistry~!~ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry~!~ccl.net] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:05 AM To: Ryan, M Dominic Subject: CCL:G: CCL rules Sent to CCL by: Herbert Fruchtl [herbert.fruchtl[-]st-andrews.ac.uk] While I don't want to see the table of contents of every journal that has some bearing on computational chemistry (you can sign up to get email alerts of this kind with most publishers), I always find it refreshing to get a reminder that there are philosophical assumptions underlying chemistry that are worth questioning and discussing. Even though we don't actually have time to do that, but spend our days figuring out the meaning of the IOPs of a certain program... I find it more worrying that somebody with a personal axe to grind (there have been some "lively" exchanges on CCL between Messrs. Sun and Scerri) tries to silence somebody else on procedural grounds. Herbert Dominic Ryan dominic.ryan[*]comcast.net wrote: > Sent to CCL by: "Dominic Ryan" [dominic.ryan . comcast.net] > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C6E34D.B8E721E0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > This is actually an interesting topic and a rare digression from G03 > difficulties. > > > > If one looks back over the many years of CCL usage I cannot think of any > other occurrences of a journal editor supplying a steady stream of > references to 'his' journal and I have been reading the list approximately > since it started. > > > > I find it all the more notable when considering that the journal in question > only covers computational chemistry in part. > > > > Occasional pointers to volumes such as the reviews series by Don Boyd were > entirely appropriate I think, in part since they were a single event and in > part because they were completely about the broad subject this list is about > and highly valued by the community. > > > > This is not to say that some of the topics raised are not interesting, > indeed they are. Still, to my reading, Sengen Sun raises a pertinent point > that stands apart from his dispute with articles in the journal. Nor would > I either want to see such discussion of the topics squelched, some of it > does belong here while other topics seem quite a stretch. > > > > So, while I had not twigged to the issue myself, now that he raised the > question I think he may have a point about undue highlighting of a journal > by its editor. > > > > Dominic Ryan > > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-chemistry[A]ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry[A]ccl.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:22 PM > To: Ryan, M Dominic > Subject: CCL: CCL rules > > > > Sent to CCL by: Sengen Sun [sengensun+/-yahoo.com] > > > Dear Professor Eric Scerri, > > > In science, there are some basic rules such as > > following logic and using concise words as much as we > > can. These basic rules should make sure that science > > is distinguished from religions, arts, politics, etc. > > In the reality, it is very complicated. > > > I am not sure that you are aware of some rules in CCL. > > Although there are no expplicit rules on journal and > > book advertisements, in my philosophy, the following > > rules apply: > > > "Commercial software: software sold to anyone for more > > than a cost of packing, shipping and handling. If you > > wish to submit a commercial announcement to the list, > > please respect the following rules: > > .. > > No reposting -- Reposts of software announcements are > > not permitted unless new features/releases become > > available."...... > > > In my logic, no journals or books are more priviledged > > to be posted here than software programs of > > computational chemistry. > > > I don't mean to attack your journal or your book. Your > > book about the Periodic Table looks good to me by the > > introduction. I am considering to buy one. But rules > > are rules. I always consider what rules to follow or > > what rules to apply to us. > > > I did see a few good articles in FOCH, although I have > > disagreements on some others. I apologize for my bad > > emotion when I strongly disagree. I like a recent > > article by Jay A. Labinger (FOCH, 2006, 8(2), 97). The > > first sentence in the Abstract says: > > > "The Science Wars have pitted defenders of science > > against those accused of attacking it with the weapons > > of constructivism and relativism." > > > I am very surprised that the attackers on science are > > so sttrong - defenders are pitted! Who did it? It is > > lawless, isn't it? > > > > Regards, > > > > Sengen > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.comhttp://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://w ww.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt------=_N extPart_000_003C_01C6E34D.B8E721E0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > > > > > > > > > >
> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>This is actually an interesting topic and a rare digression from = > G03 > difficulties.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>If one looks back over the many years of CCL usage I cannot = > think of > any other occurrences of a journal editor supplying a steady stream of > references to 'his' journal and I have been reading the list = > approximately since > it started.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:"Courier New"'>I find it all the more notable when = > considering that > the journal in question only covers computational chemistry in = > part.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Occasional pointers to volumes such as the reviews series by Don = > Boyd > were entirely appropriate I think, in part since they were a single = > event and > in part because they were completely about the broad subject this list = > is about > and highly valued by the community.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>This is not to say that some of the topics raised are not = > interesting, > indeed they are.  Still, to my reading, Sengen Sun raises a = > pertinent point > that stands apart from his dispute with articles in the journal.  = > Nor > would I either want to see such discussion of the topics squelched, some = > of it > does belong here while other topics seem quite a = > stretch.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>So, while I had not twigged to the issue myself, now that he = > raised the > question I think he may have a point about undue highlighting of a = > journal by > its editor.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Dominic Ryan

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-chemistry[A]ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry[A]ccl.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:22 PM
> To: Ryan, M Dominic
> Subject: CCL: CCL rules

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Sent to CCL by: Sengen Sun = > [sengensun+/-yahoo.com]

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Dear Professor Eric Scerri,

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>In science, there are some basic rules such = > as

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>following logic and using concise words as much as = > we

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>can. These basic rules should make sure that = > science

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>is distinguished from religions, arts, politics, = > etc.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>In the reality, it is very = > complicated.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>I am not sure that you are aware of some rules in = > CCL.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Although there are no expplicit rules on journal = > and

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>book advertisements, in my philosophy, the = > following

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>rules apply:

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>"Commercial software: software sold to anyone for = > more

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>than a cost of packing, shipping and handling. If = > you

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>wish to submit a commercial announcement to the = > list,

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>please respect the following rules:

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>...

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>No reposting -- Reposts of software announcements = > are

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>not permitted unless new features/releases = > become

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>available."......

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>In my logic, no journals or books are more = > priviledged

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>to be posted here than software programs = > of

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>computational chemistry.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>I don't mean to attack your journal or your book. = > Your

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>book about the Periodic Table looks good to me by the = >

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>introduction. I am considering to buy one. But = > rules

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>are rules. I always consider what rules to follow = > or

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>what rules to apply to us.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>I did see a few good articles in FOCH, although I = > have

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>disagreements on some others. I apologize for my = > bad

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>emotion when I strongly disagree. I like a = > recent

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>article by Jay A. Labinger (FOCH, 2006, 8(2), 97). = > The

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>first sentence in the Abstract = > says:

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>"The Science Wars have pitted defenders of = > science

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>against those accused of attacking it with the = > weapons

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>of constructivism and = > relativism."

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>I am very surprised that the attackers on science = > are

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>so sttrong - defenders are pitted! Who did it? It = > is

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>lawless, isn't it?

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Regards,

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Sengen

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>__________________________________________________ an>

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Do You Yahoo!?

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection = > around

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>http://mail.yahoo.com

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing = > script =3D-

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>To recover the email address of the author of the message, = > please > change

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>the strange characters on the top line to the [A] sign. You can = > also

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>look up the X-Original-From: line in the mail = > header.

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY[A]ccl.net or = > use:

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>     <= > /p> > >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST[A]ccl.net or = > use

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>     <= > /p> > >

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> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>   = >    http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml= >

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Before posting, check wait time at: = > http://www.ccl.net

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Conferences: = > http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/ an>

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/htdig  (login: ccl, = > Password: > search)

> >

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> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error, = > check:

> >

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> >

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style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>RTFI: = > http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/ nt>

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style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-= > +-+-+-+

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >

style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt'> 

> >
> > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C6E34D.B8E721E0--> > > -- Herbert Fruchtl EaStCHEM Fellow School of Chemistry University of St Andrewshttp://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt