Perhaps a solution to this conundrum is differentiating between = applied mathematics and “pure” mathematics. I’ve = always found that mathematics taught in an application environment (e.g. = the recent NanoHub course on Fundamentals of Nanoelectronics) is much = easier to absorb and apply than that taught in splendid isolation where = there is no connection to the real world.

Jim

From:= = owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam=3D=3Dkressworks.com .. ccl.net = [mailto:owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam=3D=3Dkressworks.com .. ccl.net] On = Behalf Of Bradley Welch bwelch5**slu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, = August 07, 2012 12:21 AM
To: Kress, Jim =
Subject: CCL: Apologies... the article I read was in = the NYT, not CCL, but the issue is still = valid...

I've had a math course taught in the = chemistry department. It was probably more worthwhile than the separate = linear algebra and differential equations courses I took. It got = straight to the point with connecting concepts to their chemistry ones. = Admittedly there are other issues at work when people struggle at = Physical Chemistry. One of that I think is up until that point, deriving = is something your chemistry student has done little of. Your average = physics student by their junior year has probably has had modern = physics, classical mechanics, and other derivation heavy courses by the = time they get to quantum mechanics, statistical thermo, etc. =

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:58 PM, = Salomon Turgman Cohen sturgman.:.gmail.com <owner-chemistry[]ccl.net> = wrote:

Sent to CCL by: Salomon Turgman Cohen = [sturgman()gmail.com]
Dear All,
My = memories of the required Physical Chemistry course for the
cheme = degree are still fresh in my memory. I remember struggling with
some = of the tools and missing their relation to previous work in = math
classes. Eventually, some of us just got it. Perhaps, a piece of = this
puzzle is teaching department specific math classes (at higher = costs
obviously) where mathematical concepts are connected = immediately to
future topics to be taught in the (chemistry) = field.

Salomon

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Amy J = Austin
docronindaemon(-)gmail.com <owner-chemistry- -ccl.net> = wrote:
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Amy J Austin" = [docronindaemon- -gmail.com]
>
> Hi = John,
>
> I agree with you that Chemistry students should = have to take more Mathematics as a prerequisite for the major. Further, = I believe the lack of these required courses places undergraduate = students lacking an education in higher level Mathematics at a = disadvantage. Imagine learning the concepts involved in Physical = Chemistry or Theoretical chemistry if one simultaneously struggles with = the tools involved.
>
> A descriptive Chemist wouldn't need = the same command of Mathematics as a Physical/Theoretical Chemist. Then = again, how would an undergraduate student know if they had an interest = in the latter without the fundamental Mathematical knowledge to master = the material.
>
>
> Best,
>
> = Amy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g= t;> "John McKelvey jmmckel]*[gmail.com" = wrote:
>>
>> Sent to CCL by: John McKelvey = [jmmckel.]_[.gmail.com]
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/is-alg= ebra-necessary.html?WT.mc_id=3DNYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0801-L14&nl=3Del<= br>>>
>> --
>> John McKelvey
>> 10819 = Middleford Pl
>> Ft Wayne, IN 46818
>> 260-489-2160
>> jmmckel]_[gmail.com>
>

--
Salomon = Turgman Cohen
Postdoctoral Associate
Cornell University
(919) 341-9650

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--
Bradley = Welch
Saint Louis University
Monsanto Hall Room 218 =