From pseida $#at#$ cc.brynmawr.edu Wed Nov 3 14:48:18 1993 Received: from cc.brynmawr.edu for pseida ^%at%^ cc.brynmawr.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.1/930601.1506) id OAA19044; Wed, 3 Nov 1993 14:17:17 -0500 Received: by cc.brynmawr.edu (5.57/cc09-01-92) id AA29284; Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:19:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9311031919.AA29284 # - at - # cc.brynmawr.edu> Subject: Summary: X and modems To: chemistry.,at,.ccl.net Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:19:38 EST From: Seida Pamela R Cc: cyp -x- at -x- sun.chem.wayne.edu, stote -x- at -x- borneo.u-strasbg.fr, tristan -x- at -x- kodak.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: R Here is the summary of information I received about X-windows sessions over a phone line. Opinions are mixed. I haven't had a chance to implement any of these options yet, although I will probably try the MacX + SLIP configuration when I do. Thanks to all who responded and I apologize for the delay in getting the summary out (I'm working on my dissertation - please forgive me ;-) ). Pamela Seida Bryn Mawr College **************************** Does anyone know of a way to have an X-windows session over a 9600 baud modem from a Mac to a UNIX box of some variety? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'll summarize to the net if there is sufficient interest (and I get any answers ;-)). Pamela Seida Chemistry Department Bryn Mawr College **************** From: shepard- at -dirac.tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) Subject: Re: X and modems If you have access to an ARA server on the network, then you can dial in from the Mac, run MacX over MacTCP, and have MacTCP running over AppleTalk. You can also run Telnet simultaneously if you choose. I have tried to do the same thing using SLIP (and CSLIP) but after a few hours of tweaking, I could never get things to work right. The ARA approach worked first time, so I never got around to debugging the SLIP connection. There could well be some performance advantage to using SLIP directly. -Ron **************** From: chiremv!andromeda!jeffb(+ at +)uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Blaney) Subject: Re: X and modems AppleTalk Remote Access software (available from Apple) will let you run AppleTalk thru a modem; I use a 14.4 Kb modem. In addition to standard LocalTalk network features (file sharing, email, etc), you can also run MacX (and probably other X-servers, although I haven't tried them). X performance at 14.4 Kb is very sluggish; I only resort to this when desperate. Jeff Blaney Chiron jeffb[ AT ]chiron.com **************** From: Mr Andrew D Allen Subject: Re: X and modems I have not had experience of this specific problem, but if you are attaching to the UNIX box from the MAC then you would need to set the display environment variable of the UNIX box to the Mac. The by invoking X commands from the unix box, your results will be graphically displayed on the Mac. Hope this helps, Andy. **************** From: wolpert {*at*} neon.chem.utk.edu (Edward Wolpert) Subject: X and modems All I can say is DON'T DO IT! You will spend alot of cash, and hate what you get. Trust me. :( I have a 9600 v42bis mmp5 modem. ($180 mac warehouse) I have a free dial-up slip connection to the university I work at, and who gave my home computer a IP address. (This is absouletly needed to connect to an X-client, since they are tcp/ip dependent. You can also use ppp, but slip is more universal, and I can't find a good ppp modual for the MacTCP program.) There are many programs to use to connect. I get the slip mac program, and mactcp from using VersaTerm Link (about $200 with university discount). This provides a pop mailer, newsreader, a Great terminal emulation program, and links to a gopher. (Actually, for mail I use LeeMail, and smtp mail program on the shareware market... about $20) Mac-X will allow you to accecpt X-windows... with programs like Sybyl, or other graphic programs, make sure your monitor is sun-quality. Mac-X is about $250 or more. If you want a UNIX/X-window enviorment, you can use aux, but this changes alot about your mac, and not very mac-like ($495) MachTen is much better than aux... it runs as an application, so you can have system 7.1 and unix. Good multitasking enviorment. ($200) With X-windows, add another $200 though. The UNIX programs may come with a slip or ppp program, so check them out first. Here is the problem... you will endup spending at least $500. X-windows is nice, but on normal mac monitors, the dot resolution is bigger than most X-servers, so the window on a mac is usually much bigger, and clumsy. Also, X is very tcp/ip active, meaning everytime you move the mouse, it sends info across the slip connection. My 9600 (et al) modem, with compression and slip/compression, will overall connect at 38.7Kbaud. The lines are dirty (Voice, not data ready) so error correction is a _must_ and slows down the line. UNIX is a 32bit operating system, X is also 32bit. Every movement is send 32bits over the slip. God forbid you also get mail at the same time. It's neat at first, having X at home, but after a while, I just get fed-up and head back to the university to do real work. Having a home tcp/ip connection is wonderful, and versaterm link, leemail, and turbogopher (+finger and talk from the sumex-aim archive) is better than anything I can ask for, and I suggest it to anyone. I routinely login to my unix accounts to do work from home. But it is impossible to use X at such a slow speed. Try it out if you can, I may just be picky. Virtually, Edward Wolpert --------------------------------------------------------------------- |wolpert # - at - # osti.slip.utk.edu | | |wolpert#* at *#neon.chem.utk.edu | (Sign on Doctor's Office Door...) | |wolpert%!at!%lead.chem.utk.edu | | |wolpert-: at :-utkux1.utk.edu | Dr. Godot's Office | |wolpert ":at:" utkvx.utk.edu | Be Back in Five | |wolpert[ AT ]martha.utcc.utk.edu | | |wolpe... you get the picture | | -------------------------------------------------------------------- **************** From: Anders.Sundin # - at - # orgk2.lth.se Yes it is possible to use X-windows on a Macintosh computer as a server and a UNIX computer as a client over a serial line. (Yes the Mac is a server, not a client...) However, you do need the proper hardware and software to do this. =================================== Computing center. Home. AppleTalk Remote Access server ARA client Macintosh with modem--------------Telephone line--------Macintosh with modem | LocalTalk net | | FastPath bridge------Ethernet-----UNIX computer ================================== Your Macintosh runs MacX (which includes MacTCP) and AppleTalk Remote Access client software. The computing center has Macintosh and modem set up as an AppleTalk Remote Access server. You also have to have a FastPath bridge (or equivalent) somewhere on the computing center network to properly encapsulate the IP traffic before it is passed over the ARA link. Set up MacTCP so it gets its IP address from the FastPath bridge. I just tried to use X-windows over an ARA link and it worked fine. xman updated its window in about 3 seconds over a 14400 baud ARA link. -Anders PS There are probably other ways to do this (eg SLIP). -- Anders Sundin e-mail: Anders.Sundin#* at *#orgk2.lth.se Organic Chemistry 2 ok2aps;at;selund.bitnet Lund University, P.O. Box 124 voice: +46 46 104130 S-22100 Lund, Sweden fax: +46 46 108209 **************** From: Song Liu You can try using MacSlip and Mac-X, I tried MacSLIP and Telnet, it worked for us. Song Liu Chemistry, UC, Irvine **************** From: shepard: at :dirac.tcg.anl.gov (Ron Shepard) >Thanks for your suggestion. I have what may be a dumb question...what >is an ARA server? ARA stands for AppleTalk Remote Access. It allows you to connect a remote mac to a network. The remote mac can connect either to an existing Mac on the network (i.e. if you have two macs, one in an office and one at home) or you can connect to an ARA server. An ARA server is a box connected to one or more modems and to a localtalk network that allows remote Macs to call in and establish connections. Once connected you can mount appleshare devices, print to network printers, etc. Basically anything that a mac connected directly to the network can do, the remote mac can do over the phone line. This includes running Telnet and MacX over the network (provided there is an ethernet-localtalk gateway somewhere on the localtalk network). Hope this helps. -Ron **************** From: (Dr.) Dave Winkler Subject: Re: X and modems I believe you simply have to implement SLIP (serial line internet protocol) on your Iris and use SLIP on your Mac. I don't know how bad the performance would be but would like to find out as I want to do this too. Does anyone know whether Mac-X supports a SLIP connection? Cheers, Dave __________________________________________________________________________ Dr. David A. Winkler Voice: 61-3-542-2244 Principal Research Scientist Fax: 61-3-543-8160 CSIRO Division of Chemicals and Polymers Private Bag 10 Clayton, Australia. **************** From: Lyle Wiedeman Status: OR The only way we have achieved that here is to run MacX on the Mac, and use SLIP over the serial line. Since I was not personally involved in setting it up, I wouldn't be able to tell you how to assemble the pieces, however :-( Lyle Wiedeman Office of Academic Computing wiedeman _-at-_)uci.edu Univ. Calif. Irvine wiedeman(+ at +)UCI.BITNET Irvine, CA 92717 (714) 856-8718 FAX (714) 725-2069 **************** From: Anders.Sundin _-at-_)orgk2.lth.se >I believe you simply have to implement SLIP (serial line internet protocol) on >your Iris and use SLIP on your Mac. I don't know how bad the performance would >be but would like to find out as I want to do this too. Does anyone know >whether Mac-X supports a SLIP connection? MacX does not have to know about SLIP. You only have to indicate a SLIP connection in MacTCP. There is a free (?) Macintosh SLIP from InterCon. Archie found the latest version at Host ftp.wu-wien.ac.at (137.208.3.4) Last updated 19:59 14 Sep 1993 Location: /incoming FILE -rw-r----- 351360 bytes 11:07 2 Aug 1993 InterSLIP1.0fc3.sit.bin I don't have SLIP on any UNIX computer so I have not tried it. -Anders -- Anders Sundin e-mail: Anders.Sundin ^%at%^ orgk2.lth.se Organic Chemistry 2 ok2aps %-% at %-% selund.bitnet Lund University, P.O. Box 124 voice: +46 46 104130 S-22100 Lund, Sweden fax: +46 46 108209 **************** From: CHEM810-!at!-QUCDN.QueensU.CA I know very little about macs. However, there is a public domain UNIX for the i386/486 chips called linux which, I believe, has ben ported to the mac. It uses x11 as it's windowing environment, and individuals at our institution have used it to run remote X-sessions across ZyXEL 16.8 kbaud modems. However, sending X codes across serial lines is a painfully slow process. A minimal linux/X installation is also 50+ Mbytes. Good luck, though. Mark Anderson Queen's University Kingston, Ontario, Canada **************** From: Jim Gano/Chemistry Exodus, an X-Window emulator for the Mac will run over a modem. The problem is not running over the modem but rather modem speed sufficient to get usable results. 2400 baud is definitely not sufficient. 9600 might be. We have people running a Tektronix emulator over a 9600 baud line to do things like the Cambridge database. They find it usable. Jim Gano Department of Chemistry University of Toledo Toledo, Ohio 43606 (419)537-2104