From WTWINTER@suvm.acs.syr.edu Sat Sep 26 08:55:58 1992 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 12:55:58 EDT From: Bill Winter To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: discouraging commercials on the net As a follow up to Jan's comment, the only way to influence is to show them that their ads hurt sales not help them. HATE mail is probably a waste of your own time as these folks have very thick skins so threaten their finances instead. A short example sent to barbara graham of polygen follows. >>Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 12:41:12 EDT >>From: Bill Winter >>To: barbarag@polygen.com BECAUSE of your deliberate disregard for the guidelines regarding commercial postings to the compchem bulletin board (chemistry@osc) we shall refuse to cons ider subscription to your publication. ... From markm@portal.vpharm.com Sat Sep 26 17:52:28 1992 From: markm@portal.vpharm.com (Mark Murcko) Subject: Re: discouraging commercials on the net ===> WHY??? To: chemistry@ccl.net Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 21:52:28 EDT To: chemistry@ccl.net Lately, there have been lots of mail messages decrying the use of this newsgroup for "commercial" purposes. At the risk of trying to swim against a flood tide, let me put in a defense of such net activity. Before I begin, please understand that I do not work for or represent anyone who sells modeling software -- I am just a user. What is wrong with someone who has put months or years into developing a product trying to reach, in the most efficient way possible, the likely users of that product? What is wrong with all of us, who love computational chemistry, wanting to find out, in the most efficient way possible, what new and improved software is available? Of course I, like everyone else, do not want to be subjected to "marketing blitzes." But if a vendor explains his product in a technical way, without a lot of hype or exaggeration, and without attacking other products, what in the world is wrong with that? For example: I suspect that many readers of this group didn't know too much about hyperchem until the recent postings from one of the developers. Likewise, many people may not know too much about CDA News, which is __not__ a vehicle for shameless Polygen propaganda, but rather is a pretty balanced monthly "fact sheet" for the entire modeling community. Another example: every so often Mike Frisch jumps into a discussion. As often as not, what he says ends up suggesting a way the user can solve his problem with Gaussian-92. Does anyone here object? Not that I've ever seen! And of course, no one should object to such "good information." Keep posting, Mike! Now, if I haven't totally lost you ... A related subject is placing ads for new modeling positions. Again, I gather that this is taboo. But why? If I was a 4th- year grad student, or a post doc, or if I was already in an industrial position but was thinking about a move, I would want to know about openings. And looking at it from the other side, I can tell you that it ain't always easy to find the right person. The bottom line is, we need information. Lots of it. This news- group is great because it provides lots of information. Adding commercial announcements, and advertising for positions, could, in principle, make the group even more useful to most everybody. A few months back, Doug Smith asked the Net for possible justifications for using FORTRAN instead of French to fulfill a language requirement. Everyone on the planet jumped down his throat. I hope my post won't be quite so explosive, but c'est la vie. / Mark From balbes@osiris.rti.org Sat Sep 26 18:13:05 1992 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 22:13:05 -0400 From: balbes@osiris.rti.org (Lisa Balbes) To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: RE: discouraging commercials on the net I agree that informational hate mail (ie economic boycott) will work wonders in keeping ads off the net. However, I would encourage people to check the identity and affiliation of the poster before flaming. (And wasn't there a policy of allowing commercial message of less than 15 lines? ) I sent a "commercial" announcement via private email to an individual who asked a related question. This individual then posted the announcement. I had nothing to do with the posting, and in retrospect probably should have included a "please do not post" disclaimer. Unfortunately, many people do not pay attention to the sender name, and I have been chastized for that posting by several people. % This came directly from a computer and is not to be doubted or disbeleived. % Lisa Balbes Osiris Consultants balbes@osiris.rti.org (614) 279-1829