From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 02:06:00 2014 From: "Clark, Aurora auclark.#.wsu.edu" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49687-140215231209-28703-sGpDLK6s7hQEu9gfCShCAg#server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Clark, Aurora" Content-ID: Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a discipline and not really about gender at all. Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific state-of-the-art. It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators, program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solving some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see a poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs. Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. Cheers; Aurora Aurora Clark Associate Professor Department of Chemistry Washington State University Pullman, Wa 99164 Ph: 509-335-3362 Fax: 509-335-8867 On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" wrote: > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >Dear Colleagues, > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would >be unacceptable... > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > >Best regards, >Kadir >--- > > >Dear Colleague: > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a >single woman. > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak >at these conferences. > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take >less than a minute). > >Thank you for your for your support. > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 02:42:00 2014 From: "Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36 ~ gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49688-140215232635-5893-Gg8xW40bhMdebL2AiQ5nfg]_[server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Joseph E Maxwell Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:25:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36:_:gmail.com] Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also saying that their labor could be appropriated. Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged group. And BTW, for Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but "gender" inequality as a representational issue. Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but had this commentary, which is of importance to the community gone without your further commentary, this would not be continuing. Thanks! On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James > brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleague: >>> >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of >>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of >>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>> >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>> to speak at these conferences. >>> >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this >>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>> will take less than a minute). >>> >>> Thank you for your for your support. >>> >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> >> >> -- >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >> Adjunct Associate Professor >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia>> To recover the email address of the author of the message, please >> change> Conferences: >> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/-- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmW1cLzo8Q > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > Faculty of Chemistry > Jagiellonian University > 3 Ingardena Street > 30-060 Krakow > Poland > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > gg 3817259 > skype kzys70 > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlConferences: > http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> > > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 03:17:00 2014 From: "Kadir Diri dirikadir%%gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49689-140215234821-17923-g1+awv9xGYHVSQVScouMSA,server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Kadir Diri Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:47:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir#%#gmail.com] I am sorry, but we ARE talking about theoretical chemistry. It is this kind of attitude that fosters gender discrimination in sciences. This issue is way more important than discussing a scientific problem that only three people in the world could relate to. CCL is the ideal place for this kind of discussions, and I didn't even think that someone would disagree. Regards, Kadir On 02/15/2014 05:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James > brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleague: >>> >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of >>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of >>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>> >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>> to speak at these conferences. >>> >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this >>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>> will take less than a minute). >>> >>> Thank you for your for your support. >>> >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> >> >> -- >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >> Adjunct Associate Professor >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia>> To recover the email address of the author of the message, please >> change> Conferences: >> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/-- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmW1cLzo8Q > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > Faculty of Chemistry > Jagiellonian University > 3 Ingardena Street > 30-060 Krakow > Poland > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > gg 3817259 > skype kzys70 > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlConferences: > http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 03:52:01 2014 From: "Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36..gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49690-140216002437-2554-ZHozcmv2+MCIsO8kz6hgEg^server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Joseph E Maxwell Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 21:24:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36%a%gmail.com] Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also saying that their labor could be appropriated. Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged group. And BTW, for Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but "gender" inequality as a representational issue. Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but had this original commentary, which is of importance to the community gone without your further opposing commentary, this would not be continuing. Thanks! On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James > brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 09:26:00 2014 From: "ABHISHEK SHAHI shahi.abhishek1984|gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: conformational preference Message-Id: <-49691-140216090808-10758-I0n5Hm8VsIH6pEEkWXOe1A,+,server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: ABHISHEK SHAHI Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2190c10baa004f2869166 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:37:40 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: ABHISHEK SHAHI [shahi.abhishek1984!=!gmail.com] --001a11c2190c10baa004f2869166 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear All, I am looking for a method to explain the conformational preference. Suppose I have two conformers (say: rotational isomers) of very small energy difference. On the basis of energy, stable one can be predicted. Is there other way to prove the above fact ? NBO (second order perturbation energy) didn't help, since there are large number of bonds and overlapping. Any suggestion (including NBO) will be appropriated. Thanks. -- *Abhishek Shahi Research ScholarInorganic and Physical Chemistry Indian Institute Of ScienceBangalore-12* E-mail: shahi_-_ipc.iisc.ernet.in shahi.abhishek1984_-_gmail.com --001a11c2190c10baa004f2869166 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,

I am looking for a method to explain the conformational preference. Suppose= I have two conformers (say: rotational isomers) of very small energy diffe= rence. On the basis of energy, stable one can be predicted. Is there other = way to prove the above fact ? NBO (second order perturbation energy) didn&#= 39;t help, since there are large number of bonds and overlapping. Any sugge= stion (including NBO) will be appropriated.

Thanks.






--
Abhishek Shahi
Research Scholar
Inorganic and Physical Chemistry
Indian= Institute Of Science
Bangalore-12
E-mail: =A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <= a style=3D"font-family:arial black,sans-serif" href=3D"mailto:shahi_-_ipc.iis= c.ernet.in" target=3D"_blank">shahi_-_ipc.iisc.ernet.in
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 shahi.abhishek19= 84_-_gmail.com
--001a11c2190c10baa004f2869166-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 10:39:01 2014 From: "N. Sukumar nagams-#-rpi.edu" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49692-140216041403-8756-F/VE7DwBkAJoQ93iOifhDQ : server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "N. Sukumar" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 4:14:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "N. Sukumar" [nagams\a/rpi.edu] I agree that such concerns are very much on topic. And for a start, I would also petition the listed speakers, many of whom are on this list, to consider withdrawing from participation until/unless the gender inequality issue is addressed. N. Sukumar Professor of Chemistry Shiv Nadar University, India ---------------------------- "Pursue something so important that even if you fail, the world is better off with you having tried." -- Tim O'Reilly http://as.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470769009.html ==============Original message text=============== On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:25:40 EST "Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36 ~ gmail.com" wrote: Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36:_:gmail.com] Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also saying that their labor could be appropriated. Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged group. And BTW, for Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but "gender" inequality as a representational issue. Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but had this commentary, which is of importance to the community gone without your further commentary, this would not be continuing. Thanks! On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James > brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleague: >>> >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of>>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of>>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>> >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)>>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>> to speak at these conferences. >>> >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this>>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>> will take less than a minute). >>> >>> Thank you for your for your support. >>> >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/>>> >> -- >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >> Adjunct Associate Professor >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia>> To recover the email address of the author of the message, please >> change> Conferences: >> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/-- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmW1cLzo8Q > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > Faculty of Chemistry > Jagiellonian University > 3 Ingardena Street > 30-060 Krakow > Poland > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > gg 3817259 > skype kzys70 > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlConferences: > http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt===========End of original message text=========== From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 11:14:01 2014 From: "Ulrike Salzner salzner-*-gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49693-140216041916-13231-9uyTKHvY3WMOF07rWY6eDg _ server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Ulrike Salzner Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c13010182a7304f28288f3 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:19:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Ulrike Salzner [salzner,+,gmail.com] --001a11c13010182a7304f28288f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear SIRS, How can we talk about theoretical chemistry when we are ignored by the gentlemen? And please do not confuse gender issues with sex. Ulrike Salzner On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 3:12 AM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl < owner-chemistry]=[ccl.net> wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a| > gmail.com napisa=C5=82(a): > >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleague: >>> >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of >>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of >>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>> >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>> to speak at these conferences. >>> >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this >>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>> will take less than a minute). >>> >>> Thank you for your for your support. >>> >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> >>> >> >> -- >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >> Adjunct Associate Professor >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia >> >> >> >> -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D-=-= - >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > Faculty of Chemistry > Jagiellonian University > 3 Ingardena Street > 30-060 Krakow > Poland > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > gg 3817259 > skype kzys70 > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowsk > > > > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D-http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlConferences: http://server.ccl.net/ > chemistry/announcements/conferences/> > > --=20 Assoc. Prof. Ulrike Salzner Department of Chemistry Bilkent University 06800 Bilkent, Ankara --001a11c13010182a7304f28288f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear SIRS,
How can we talk about theore= tical chemistry when we are ignored by the gentlemen? And please do not con= fuse gender issues with sex.
Ulrike Salzner


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 3:12 AM, zborows= k zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl <owner-chemistry]=[ccl.net> wrote:

Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl]
Well,
could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....??
Please



W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James =C2=A0brian.james.duke|a|= gmail.com napisa=C5=82(a= ):
Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James "
[brian.ja= mes.duke---gmail.com]
I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major
international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when
selecting speakers.

Brian Duke

On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri
dirikadir[a]gmail.com wr= ote:

Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
Dear Colleagues,

I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of
the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the
choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.

I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the
leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice
of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality.
Even that would be unacceptable...

Professor Krylov's message follows below.

Best regards,
Kadir
---


Dear Colleague:

It happened again --- =C2=A0another major theoretical chemistry
conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting
such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later
we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the
15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
http://www.icqc2015.o= rg) conducted under the auspices of
International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science
(http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of
02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs
and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman.

Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure
track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and
other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as
theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these
women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited
to speak at these conferences.

Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this
biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it
will take less than a minute).

Thank you for your for your support.

Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences:
http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/c= onferences/>

--
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) =C2=A0 Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Adjun= ct Associate Professor
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Monash Institute of Pharmaceutica= l Sciences
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australi= a



-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-= http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/annou= ncements/conferences/--
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q


Krzysztof K. Zborowski
Faculty of Chemistry
Jagiellonian University
3 Ingardena Street
30-060 Krakow
Poland
phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067
fax: =C2=A0+48(12)634-05-15
email: zborowsk,chemi= a.uj.edu.pl
gg 3817259
skype kzys70
www.che= mia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowsk



-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-=
E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY]=[ccl.net or use:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messa= ge

E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST]=[ccl.net or use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messa= ge
http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/= sub_unsub.shtml

Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net

Job: http://www.ccl.n= et/jobs Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemist= ry/announcements/conferences/

Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.= shtml
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt

RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/=





--
Assoc. Prof. Ulrike Sal= zner
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University
06800 Bilkent, Ank= ara
--001a11c13010182a7304f28288f3-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 11:49:01 2014 From: "Ajayakumar M R mr.ajay.mr ~ gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: AIM2000 vs wfx file Message-Id: <-49694-140216042446-18038-NGkaV8+5MfI7E8vUAqOFZg~~server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Ajayakumar M R" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:24:45 -0500 Sent to CCL by: "Ajayakumar M R" [mr.ajay.mr+*+gmail.com] Dear Subscribers, I was using bp86/aug-cc-pvtz-pp for optimizing a molecule that having Te atoms. The G09 keyword was GenECP. I could optimize the molecule successfully and wanted to generate a .WFN file for AIM2000 calculation. The G09 help told me that " the .WFN file does not support ECP basis sets. We have added support for this with the .WFX option, Output=WFX, but as far as I know this is only supported with Todd Keith's AIMAll package." Currently we don't have AIMAll software. I wish I could generate AIM2000-contour plots (2D) for analyzing my molecule using the same basic set that I have used for optimization. Here I am seeking your comments to solve this issue. Looking for your kind words. Thanking you, Dr. Ajayakumar M R School of Physical Sciences Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi-110067 India. Contact: +91 9868637382 E-mail : mr.ajay.mr{=}gmail.com From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 12:24:00 2014 From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti..outlook.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49695-140216062534-21634-ZCD/UHQjvgifhv7ByCzAHA[-]server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sergio Manzetti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_1295b72c-86d7-4832-9956-0f5ec2dde2a2_" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 12:25:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sergio Manzetti [sergio.manzetti###outlook.com] --_1295b72c-86d7-4832-9956-0f5ec2dde2a2_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Aurora=2C I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the qu= ality of a conference. It is the topics=2C the level of experience built in= each topic=2C and naturally the experience of the presenters=2C whether th= ey are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM=2C the = latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according = to topics of research=2C independently of gender. Maybe this conference has= topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however=2C not sto= p anyone from organizing another conference=2C where=2C occasionally=2C ano= ther gender is more overrepresented.=20 Again=2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance and expe= rtise=2C not gender. If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the researc= h=2C the research will disappear and be replaced by persons.=20 The person behind the research is not really of outomst relevant=2C it is t= he research=2C where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women)= . Cheers > From: owner-chemistry]=[ccl.net > To: sergio.manzetti]=[gmx.com > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 >=20 >=20 > Sent to CCL by: "Clark=2C Aurora" [auclark#=2C#wsu.edu] > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > merely including women in major theoretical conferences=2C it is about th= e > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted=2C but > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > discipline and not really about gender at all. >=20 > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > scientist's careers=2C not only politically=2C but also in terms of the > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art. >=20 > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators= =2C > program officers=2C and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works bot= h > ways=2C in that not only does it help the female scientist=2C but also th= e > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solvin= g > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see = a > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? >=20 > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > you omit an entire population=2C then you not only hurt those you omit=2C= but > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > a research program=2C not to mention recruiting new talent to our program= s. > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually=2C it might not > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure=2C non-applied= =2C > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. >=20 > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline=2C but > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. >=20 >=20 > Cheers=3B > Aurora >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Aurora Clark > Associate Professor > Department of Chemistry > Washington State University > Pullman=2C Wa 99164 > Ph: 509-335-3362 > Fax: 509-335-8867 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > wrote: >=20 > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > >Dear Colleagues=2C > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > >I would always like to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the leadi= ng > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > >be unacceptable... > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > >Best regards=2C > >Kadir > >--- > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which wi= ll > >be held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program features 24 > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > >single woman. > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > >computational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well a= s > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > >at these conferences. > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > >practice=2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > >less than a minute). > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > >Prof. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota > >Prof. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California> > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D- > To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C please chang= e>=20>=20>=20 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:=20>=20 > Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net >=20 > Job: http://www.ccl.net/jobs=20>=20>=20 > If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:>=20>=20 >=20 = --_1295b72c-86d7-4832-9956-0f5ec2dde2a2_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Aurora=2C

 =3BI am not sure that the number of women or the numbe= r of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics=2C the level= of experience built in each topic=2C and naturally the experience of the p= resenters=2C whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and g= ood women in QM=2C the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should = be organized according to topics of research=2C independently of gender. Ma= ybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That = does however=2C not stop anyone from organizing another conference=2C where= =2C occasionally=2C another gender is more overrepresented.

Again= =2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance and expertise= =2C not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WH= O is behind the research=2C the research will disappear and be replaced by = persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outomst re= levant=2C it is the research=2C where I guess all researchers would agree o= ne (men or women).

Cheers



>=3B From: owner-che= mistry]=[ccl.net
>=3B To: sergio.manzetti]=[gmx.com
>=3B Subject: CCL= : ICQC shame
>=3B Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000
>=3B >=3B
>=3B Sent to CCL by: "Clark=2C Aurora" [auclark#=2C#wsu.edu]=
>=3B It is important to point out that this issue is much broader tha= n
>=3B merely including women in major theoretical conferences=2C it i= s about the
>=3B repercussions of not including them and the implicati= ons to our field by
>=3B maintaining a status quo that is closed minde= d. It is multifaceted=2C but
>=3B inherently about the growth and deve= lopment of theoretical chemistry as a
>=3B discipline and not really a= bout gender at all.
>=3B
>=3B Omitting women from major conferen= ces affects a very large swath of
>=3B scientist's careers=2C not only= politically=2C but also in terms of the
>=3B recognition and distribu= tion of the new work they produce and in the
>=3B recruitment and educ= ation of talented young people that are badly needed
>=3B in any disci= pline in order for it to keep its relevance to the
>=3B ever-changing = tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific
>=3B state-of-the-= art.
>=3B
>=3B It is harder for scientists to get promoted if th= ey are not invited to
>=3B conferences where they are unable to networ= k with potential collaborators=2C
>=3B program officers=2C and reviewe= rs of their dossiers. Networking works both
>=3B ways=2C in that not o= nly does it help the female scientist=2C but also the
>=3B collaborato= r...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solving
>=3B s= ome complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see a>=3B poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a g= rad
>=3B student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end= up paying
>=3B valuable research dollars for this student to solve a = problem that has
>=3B already been addressed? What if the next Einstei= n is an undergrad working
>=3B in your group and she decides she wants= to go into Biology because she
>=3B doesn't see anyone that respects = her ideas or believes in her potential?
>=3B
>=3B One of the bea= utiful things about conferences is that they provide a
>=3B platform f= or showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If
>=3B yo= u omit an entire population=2C then you not only hurt those you omit=2C but=
>=3B also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop>=3B a research program=2C not to mention recruiting new talent to our p= rograms.
>=3B Without these things we degrade our field and eventually= =2C it might not
>=3B matter anymore because no one will see the value= in pure=2C non-applied=2C
>=3B theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.=
>=3B
>=3B So - I view this string not merely about echoing the = chorus of how
>=3B terrible it is that there may be discrimination in = our discipline=2C but
>=3B also in the health and development of theor= etical chemistry and what our
>=3B field will look like 20 or 50 years= from now.
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Cheers=3B
>=3B Aurora
&g= t=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Aurora Clark
>=3B Ass= ociate Professor
>=3B Department of Chemistry
>=3B Washington Sta= te University
>=3B Pullman=2C Wa 99164
>=3B Ph: 509-335-3362
&= gt=3B Fax: 509-335-8867
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B
>=3B On 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gma= il.com"
>=3B <=3Bowner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net>=3B wrote:
>=3B =
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BSent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ g= mail.com]
>=3B >=3BDear Colleagues=2C
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >= =3BI am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the=
>=3B >=3Bmany outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding= the choice of
>=3B >=3Bspeakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BI would always like to think of us=2C scien= tists=2C as some of the leading
>=3B >=3Bfigures in the fight for ge= nder equality. I wish the choice of speakers
>=3B >=3Bfor this confe= rence was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would
>=3B >=3Bb= e unacceptable...
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BProfessor Krylov's messa= ge follows below.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BBest regards=2C
>= =3B >=3BKadir
>=3B >=3B---
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
&g= t=3B >=3BDear Colleague:
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BIt happened aga= in --- another major theoretical chemistry conference
>=3B >=3Bfeat= ures an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
>=3B >=3Bc= onferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are
>= =3B >=3Bstill seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th<= br>>=3B >=3BInternational Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C
>= =3B >=3Bhttp://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of Internat= ional
>=3B >=3BAcademy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaq= ms.org)=2C which will
>=3B >=3Bbe held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02= /15/2014=2C the program features 24
>=3B >=3Binvited speakers and 5 = chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a
>=3B >=3Bsingle wo= man.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BAre there no women in theoretical che= mistry? Hardly. The Women in
>=3B >=3BTheoretical Chemistry web-dire= ctory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
>=3B >=3Blists more than 300 f= emale scientists holding tenured and tenure track
>=3B >=3Bacademic = positions or equivalent positions in industry and other
>=3B >=3Bres= earch establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
>=3B >=3Bc= omputational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well as>=3B >=3Btheoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of = these women
>=3B >=3Bare far more distinguished than many of the men= being invited to speak
>=3B >=3Bat these conferences.
>=3B >= =3B
>=3B >=3BFeeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voi= ce to ours by
>=3B >=3Bsigning this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKU= c) denouncing this biased
>=3B >=3Bpractice=2C which we had hoped wo= uld be obsolete long ago (it will take
>=3B >=3Bless than a minute).=
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BThank you for your for your support.
&= gt=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BProf. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University
= >=3B >=3BProf. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota
>=3B >= =3BProf. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California>=3B
>=3B &= gt=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B -=3D This is automatically= added to each message by the mailing script =3D-
>=3B To recover the = email address of the author of the message=2C please change
>=3B the s= trange characters on the top line to the ]=[ sign. You can also
>=3B loo= k up the X-Original-From: line in the mail header.
>=3B
>=3B E-m= ail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY]=[ccl.net or use:
>=3B http://www.cc= l.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>=3B
>=3B E-mail to administr= ators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST]=[ccl.net or use
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/= cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>=3B
>=3B>=3B
>=3B
&= gt=3B Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>=3B >=3B
>=3B Conferences: http://server= .ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/
>=3B
>=3B Search M= essages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>=3B
&= gt=3B If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:
>=3B =
>=3B
>=3B RTFI: http://www.c= cl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/
>=3B
>=3B
=
= --_1295b72c-86d7-4832-9956-0f5ec2dde2a2_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 12:59:01 2014 From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.[a].outlook.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49696-140216062742-21932-yt7IfumKgnEwkdgg6KdHbg[a]server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sergio Manzetti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_9a2757bd-9ae2-4a94-b237-0d59cc7f98e7_" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 12:27:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sergio Manzetti [sergio.manzetti * outlook.com] --_9a2757bd-9ae2-4a94-b237-0d59cc7f98e7_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= Dear Aurora=2C I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the qu= ality of a conference. It is the topics=2C the level of experience built in= each topic=2C and naturally the experience of the presenters=2C whether th= ey are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM=2C the = latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according = to topics of research=2C independently of gender. Maybe this conference has= topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however=2C not sto= p anyone from organizing another conference=2C where=2C occasionally=2C ano= ther gender is more overrepresented.=20 Again=2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance and expe= rtise=2C not gender. If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the researc= h=2C the research will disappear and be replaced by persons.=20 The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance=2C it is= the research=2C where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or wome= n). Cheers > From: owner-chemistry:_:ccl.net > To: sergio.manzetti:_:gmx.com > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 >=20 >=20 > Sent to CCL by: "Clark=2C Aurora" [auclark#=2C#wsu.edu] > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > merely including women in major theoretical conferences=2C it is about th= e > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted=2C but > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > discipline and not really about gender at all. >=20 > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > scientist's careers=2C not only politically=2C but also in terms of the > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art. >=20 > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators= =2C > program officers=2C and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works bot= h > ways=2C in that not only does it help the female scientist=2C but also th= e > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solvin= g > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see = a > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? >=20 > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > you omit an entire population=2C then you not only hurt those you omit=2C= but > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > a research program=2C not to mention recruiting new talent to our program= s. > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually=2C it might not > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure=2C non-applied= =2C > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. >=20 > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline=2C but > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. >=20 >=20 > Cheers=3B > Aurora >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Aurora Clark > Associate Professor > Department of Chemistry > Washington State University > Pullman=2C Wa 99164 > Ph: 509-335-3362 > Fax: 509-335-8867 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > wrote: >=20 > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > >Dear Colleagues=2C > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > >I would always like to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the leadi= ng > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > >be unacceptable... > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > >Best regards=2C > >Kadir > >--- > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which wi= ll > >be held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program features 24 > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > >single woman. > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > >computational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well a= s > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > >at these conferences. > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > >practice=2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > >less than a minute). > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > >Prof. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota > >Prof. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California> > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D- > To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C please chang= e>=20>=20>=20 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:=20>=20 > Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net >=20 > Job: http://www.ccl.net/jobs=20>=20>=20 > If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:>=20>=20 >=20 = --_9a2757bd-9ae2-4a94-b237-0d59cc7f98e7_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=0A= =0A= =0A=
Dear Aurora=2C

 =3BI am not sure that the number of wome= n or the number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topic= s=2C the level of experience built in each topic=2C and naturally the exper= ience of the presenters=2C whether they are men or women. I have seen both = good men and good women in QM=2C the latter particularly in teaching. Confe= rences should be organized according to topics of research=2C independently= of gender. Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one= gender. That does however=2C not stop anyone from organizing another confe= rence=2C where=2C occasionally=2C another gender is more overrepresented. <= br>
Again=2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance a= nd expertise=2C not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in= terms of WHO is behind the research=2C the research will disappear and be = replaced by persons.

The person behind the research is not really o= f outmost relevance=2C =3B it is the research=2C where I guess all rese= archers would agree one (men or women).

Cheers



&= gt=3B From: owner-chemistry:_:ccl.net
>=3B To: sergio.manzetti:_:gmx.com>=3B Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
>=3B Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 04:12:= 00 +0000
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Sent to CCL by: "Clark=2C Aurora" = [auclark#=2C#wsu.edu]
>=3B It is important to point out that this issu= e is much broader than
>=3B merely including women in major theoretica= l conferences=2C it is about the
>=3B repercussions of not including t= hem and the implications to our field by
>=3B maintaining a status quo= that is closed minded. It is multifaceted=2C but
>=3B inherently abou= t the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a
>=3B discip= line and not really about gender at all.
>=3B
>=3B Omitting wome= n from major conferences affects a very large swath of
>=3B scientist'= s careers=2C not only politically=2C but also in terms of the
>=3B rec= ognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the
>=3B= recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed>=3B in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the
= >=3B ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific>=3B state-of-the-art.
>=3B
>=3B It is harder for scientists = to get promoted if they are not invited to
>=3B conferences where they= are unable to network with potential collaborators=2C
>=3B program of= ficers=2C and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
>=3B = ways=2C in that not only does it help the female scientist=2C but also the<= br>>=3B collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm fo= r solving
>=3B some complicated numerical problem because you had no o= pportunity to see a
>=3B poster or talk from said female scientist? Wh= at if you pay for a grad
>=3B student to work on this complicated nume= rical problem and end up paying
>=3B valuable research dollars for thi= s student to solve a problem that has
>=3B already been addressed? Wha= t if the next Einstein is an undergrad working
>=3B in your group and = she decides she wants to go into Biology because she
>=3B doesn't see = anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential?
>=3B
= >=3B One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a=
>=3B platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a pro= blem. If
>=3B you omit an entire population=2C then you not only hurt = those you omit=2C but
>=3B also yourself and your own opportunities to= learn and develop
>=3B a research program=2C not to mention recruitin= g new talent to our programs.
>=3B Without these things we degrade our= field and eventually=2C it might not
>=3B matter anymore because no o= ne will see the value in pure=2C non-applied=2C
>=3B theoretical chemi= stry anymore anyways.
>=3B
>=3B So - I view this string not mere= ly about echoing the chorus of how
>=3B terrible it is that there may = be discrimination in our discipline=2C but
>=3B also in the health and= development of theoretical chemistry and what our
>=3B field will loo= k like 20 or 50 years from now.
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Cheers=3B>=3B Aurora
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Auror= a Clark
>=3B Associate Professor
>=3B Department of Chemistry
= >=3B Washington State University
>=3B Pullman=2C Wa 99164
>=3B = Ph: 509-335-3362
>=3B Fax: 509-335-8867
>=3B
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B On 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadi= r Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
>=3B <=3Bowner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net&g= t=3B wrote:
>=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BSent to CCL by: Kad= ir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
>=3B >=3BDear Colleagues=2C
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BI am posting this message on behalf of professor= Anna Krylov -one of the
>=3B >=3Bmany outstanding women in theoreti= cal chemistry- regarding the choice of
>=3B >=3Bspeakers for the upc= oming ICQC conference.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BI would always like= to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the leading
>=3B >=3Bfig= ures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers
>= =3B >=3Bfor this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that= would
>=3B >=3Bbe unacceptable...
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B= Professor Krylov's message follows below.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B= Best regards=2C
>=3B >=3BKadir
>=3B >=3B---
>=3B >=3B<= br>>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BDear Colleague:
>=3B >=3B
>=3B= >=3BIt happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conferenc= e
>=3B >=3Bfeatures an all-male program. One of us began boycotting = such
>=3B >=3Bconferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 yea= rs later we are
>=3B >=3Bstill seeing such overt discrimination. Thi= s time it is the 15th
>=3B >=3BInternational Congress of Quantum Che= mistry (ICQC=2C
>=3B >=3Bhttp://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under th= e auspices of International
>=3B >=3BAcademy of Quantum Molecular Sc= ience (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which will
>=3B >=3Bbe held in Beij= ing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program features 24
>=3B >=3Bi= nvited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a
= >=3B >=3Bsingle woman.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BAre there no wo= men in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
>=3B >=3BTheoreti= cal Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
>=3B >= =3Blists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track>=3B >=3Bacademic positions or equivalent positions in industry and o= ther
>=3B >=3Bresearch establishments pursuing research in theoretic= al and
>=3B >=3Bcomputational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material = science=2C as well as
>=3B >=3Btheoretical molecular/atomic physics = and biophysics. Many of these women
>=3B >=3Bare far more distinguis= hed than many of the men being invited to speak
>=3B >=3Bat these co= nferences.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BFeeling as fed up and frustrate= d as we do? Add your voice to ours by
>=3B >=3Bsigning this open let= ter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
>=3B >=3Bpractice= =2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
>=3B &= gt=3Bless than a minute).
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BThank you for yo= ur for your support.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BProf. Emily Carter=2C= Princeton University
>=3B >=3BProf. Laura Gagliardi=2C University o= f Minnesota
>=3B >=3BProf. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern Cal= ifornia>=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B -= =3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-<= br>>=3B To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C plea= se change
>=3B the strange characters on the top line to the :_: sign. Y= ou can also
>=3B=
>=3B
>=3B
&= gt=3B
>=3B
&= gt=3B
>=3B =
>=3B
>=3B =
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_un= sub.shtml
>=3B
>=3B Before posting=2C check wait time at: http:/= /www.ccl.net
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B C= onferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/
&= gt=3B
>=3B Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/in= dex.shtml
>=3B
>=3B If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 err= or=2C check:
>=3B
>=3B
= >=3B
>=3B =
>=3B
=
= --_9a2757bd-9ae2-4a94-b237-0d59cc7f98e7_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 13:34:00 2014 From: "Yavuz Dede dede~~gazi.edu.tr" To: CCL Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49697-140216082751-7838-+pru4QUvyy939xBuOOOiAQ]|[server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Yavuz Dede Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070007070502050205040205" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 15:27:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Yavuz Dede [dede : gazi.edu.tr] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070007070502050205040205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maybe we should append more names to Kadir's list to show that "Y-chromosome deficiency" does not prevent doing sound theoretical science. Anne McCoy Sharon Hammes-Schiffer Kristine Pierloot Heather A. Carlson Apologies to whom I could not quickly recall. ydd Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California -- ||||||||||||||||||||||| Yavuz Dede GÜ-Fen Fakültesi Kimya Bölümü L-128 06500 Ankara Tel: 312-202-1386 Faks: 312-212-2279 |||||||||||||||||||| Yavuz Dede, Ph.D. Theoretical/Computational Chemistry Gazi University Faculty of Science Department of Chemistry 06500 Ankara TURKEY http://w3.gazi.edu.tr/~dede/ydd.htm |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| On 16.02.2014 07:24, Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36..gmail.com wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36%a%gmail.com] > Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should > dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as > these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues > do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or > other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include > Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also > saying that their labor could be appropriated. > > Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged > group. > > And BTW, for Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but > "gender" inequality as a representational issue. > > Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but > had this original commentary, which is of importance to the community > gone > without your further opposing commentary, this would not be continuing. > > Thanks! > > > On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: >> >> Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] >> Well, >> could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? >> Please >> >> >> >> W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James >> brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >>> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >>> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >>> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three >>> poeple >>> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of >>> the >>> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >>> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable >>> balance >>> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >>> selecting speakers. >>> >>> Brian Duke >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >>> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>> >>>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>>> >>>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>>> >>>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Kadir >>>> ---http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlConferences: > http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> > > --------------070007070502050205040205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maybe we should append more names to Kadir's list to show that "Y-chromosome deficiency" does not prevent doing sound theoretical science.

Anne McCoy
Sharon Hammes-Schiffer
Kristine Pierloot
Heather A. Carlson

Apologies to whom I could not quickly recall.

ydd


Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California

-- 
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Yavuz Dede
GÜ-Fen Fakültesi
Kimya Bölümü
L-128 06500 Ankara
Tel:  312-202-1386
Faks: 312-212-2279
||||||||||||||||||||
Yavuz Dede, Ph.D.
Theoretical/Computational Chemistry
Gazi University
Faculty of Science
Department of Chemistry
06500 Ankara TURKEY
http://w3.gazi.edu.tr/~dede/ydd.htm
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||





On 16.02.2014 07:24, Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36..gmail.com wrote:

Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36%a%gmail.com]
Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should
dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as
these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues
do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or
other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include
Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also
saying that their labor could be appropriated.

Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged
group.

And BTW, for  Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but
"gender" inequality as a representational issue.

Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but
had this original commentary, which is of importance to the community gone
without your further opposing commentary, this would not be continuing.

Thanks!


On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote:

Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl]
Well,
could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....??
Please



W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a):
Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James "
[brian.james.duke---gmail.com]
I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple
sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the
Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major
international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance
between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when
selecting speakers.

Brian Duke

On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri
dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote:

Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
Dear Colleagues,

I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of
the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the
choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.

I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the
leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice
of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality.
Even that would be unacceptable...

Professor Krylov's message follows below.

Best regards,
Kadir
---



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--------------070007070502050205040205-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 14:09:00 2014 From: "ccl ccl.list.rmrmg^gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49698-140216083151-8067-lf9JTXZ1wkgJpwvfis/z6Q%x%server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: ccl Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:29:08 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: ccl [ccl.list.rmrmg .. gmail.com] "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" wrote: >24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not >include a single woman. The speakers and chairs are from North America, Europe, China ,South Korea and Japan. There is no single person from Africa, muslim countries and so on and so forth, discrimination? Since 2000 42 persons received nobel prize in physics and 5 in computational & theoretical chemistry both lists does not include a single woman, discrimination? > more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track compare to? how many mens have tenure in the same area? > Many of these women are far more distinguished than many of the men > being invited to speak at these conferences. Is there any non-invited men more distinguished of invited speakers? (Base on my personal experience) in science in general are mainly person from rich country. In theoretical chemistry there are very little woman (there are much more womans in experimental chemistry). Personally I know only one woman holding tenure in theoretical chemistry and 20+ mens. Is there any discrimination of woman? Base on my personal experience, no (however I am men so maybe I cannot see it). I rather think mens are (slightly) discriminated: I know several scholarships open to woman only and I never heard about program adress only to men. From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 14:44:00 2014 From: "Ignacio Nebot-Gil Ignacio.Nebot .. uv.es" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49699-140216091916-11399-oKVz50rHkQRry6MDf1ml2g^server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Ignacio Nebot-Gil Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 15:19:04 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Sent to CCL by: Ignacio Nebot-Gil [Ignacio.Nebot . uv.es] I fully support the boycott initiative, and we don't talk about sex but about gender and equality in theoretical chemistry meetings Ignacio Nebot-Gil Institute for Molecular Sciences University of Valencia, Spain Enviado desde mi iPad > El 16/02/2014, a las 02:12 a.m., "zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl" escribió: > > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > Well, > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisaÅ‚(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >> selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Dear Colleague: >>> >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of >>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of >>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>> >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>> to speak at these conferences. >>> >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this >>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>> will take less than a minute). >>> >>> Thank you for your for your support. >>> >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> >> >> -- >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >> Adjunct Associate Professor >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia-- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmW1cLzo8Q > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > Faculty of Chemistry > Jagiellonian University > 3 Ingardena Street > 30-060 Krakow > Poland > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > gg 3817259 > skype kzys70 > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml> > > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 15:19:00 2014 From: "Breton, Gary gbreton++berry.edu" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49700-140216123508-9574-h5ZOdF1W73arJb0bY44a4w|server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Breton, Gary" Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 17:34:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Breton, Gary" [gbreton*o*berry.edu] Perhaps one should first look into the matter more carefully rather than just assuming that all of the facts have been presented. The initial email provided very few details. It simply stated that from the roster of names, none were female. Maybe female participants were invited but none accepted? It certainly seems unlikely, but collecting pitchforks and torches before all of the facts have been laid upon the table may be premature. Perhaps someone with a strong interest should very simply quiz the organizer and get their side of the story? Gary Breton ________________________________ > From: owner-chemistry+gbreton==berry.edu++ccl.net [owner-chemistry+gbreton==berry.edu++ccl.net] on behalf of Ulrike Salzner salzner-*-gmail.com [owner-chemistry++ccl.net] Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 4:19 AM To: Breton, Gary Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Dear SIRS, How can we talk about theoretical chemistry when we are ignored by the gentlemen? And please do not confuse gender issues with sex. Ulrike Salzner On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 3:12 AM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl > wrote: Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] Well, could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? Please W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisa³(a): Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when selecting speakers. Brian Duke On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] Dear Colleagues, I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would be unacceptable... Professor Krylov's message follows below. Best regards, Kadir --- Dear Colleague: It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak at these conferences. Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take less than a minute). Thank you for your for your support. Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> -- Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu Adjunct Associate Professor Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australiahttp://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmW1cLzo8Q Krzysztof K. Zborowski Faculty of Chemistry Jagiellonian University 3 Ingardena Street 30-060 Krakow Poland phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 fax: +48(12)634-05-15 email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl gg 3817259 skype kzys70 www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowsk or use:E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|*|ccl.net or usehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt-- Assoc. Prof. Ulrike Salzner Department of Chemistry Bilkent University 06800 Bilkent, Ankara From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 15:54:01 2014 From: "janl[#]speakeasy.net" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49701-140216125534-26937-f4LV2Dbs3gGyu38QZflnmg##server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: janl[]speakeasy.net Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 12:55:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: janl#,#speakeasy.net With the flood of messages on the topic of equal rights for women,  I would suggest that participating in this discussion requires some preparation. Some voices in the discussion that advocate broader participation of women in the "computational chemistry" field, from my perspective, sound awfully "paternalistic" and may offend  both men and women that decided to read these messages. I suggest that the idealistic participants should spend 30+ minutes and see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE While it may be controversial, it is, however, quite entertaining. Then I suggest to read stuff on the Internet. For starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_equality The issue is not as simple, as just discrimination of "mail chauvinist pigs" towards the women. It may be a part of it, but not necessarily a big part, especially in the countries where there are laws against discrimination. I used to organize conferences, and I can tell you that "quota" system does not work. If you have 100 abstract submissions and 95 of them come from men and 5 from women, should you only present 10 papers at the conference, and accept all 5 contributions from women without peer review? Would it be right? This would be offending to the 5 female participants in my humble opinion. The problem with under-representation of women in the physical sciences is well known. It is changing for the better (from my life perspective), but the reasons are probably more complex than simple discrimination and laws on the books. This is my only voice in this discussion, so please do not expect any answers from me, though I can answer privately. Jan Labanowski CCL Manager From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 16:28:00 2014 From: "Cina Foroutan-Nejad canyslopus[*]yahoo.co.uk" To: CCL Subject: CCL: AIM2000 vs wfx file Message-Id: <-49702-140216132147-30516-RfXnB0r2drVyhZfpbeaQWA__server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Cina Foroutan-Nejad Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="404364280-2104297607-1392574899=:90233" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 18:21:39 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Cina Foroutan-Nejad [canyslopus(-)yahoo.co.uk] --404364280-2104297607-1392574899=:90233 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Dr. Ajayakumar,=0A=0AAs you mentioned, the only software that supports= auxiliary basis functions is AIMAll. You have no choice unfortunately. AIM= 2000 neither supports auxiliary basis functions nor g-functions; though, yo= u will have no problem with that since you are working with aug-cc-pvtz bas= is set.=0A=0AGood luck,=0ACina=0A=0A---------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------=0ACina Foroutan-Nejad, PhD=0ANation= al Center for Biochemical Researches,=0AMasaryk University, Brno,=0ACzech R= epublic=0Ahttps://muni.academia.edu/CinaForoutanNejad=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AO= n Sunday, 16 February 2014, 18:16, Ajayakumar M R mr.ajay.mr ~ gmail.com wrote:=0A =0A=0ASent to CCL by: "Ajayakumar M R" [m= r.ajay.mr+*+gmail.com]=0ADear=A0 Subscribers,=0A=0AI was using bp86/aug-cc-= pvtz-pp for optimizing a molecule that having Te =0Aatoms. The G09 keyword = was GenECP. I could optimize the molecule successfully =0Aand wanted to gen= erate a .WFN file for AIM2000 calculation. The G09 help told =0Ame that " t= he .WFN file does not support ECP basis sets.=A0 We have=0Aadded support fo= r this with the .WFX option, Output=3DWFX, but as far as I=0Aknow this is o= nly supported with Todd Keith's AIMAll package."=0ACurrently we don't have = AIMAll software.=0A=0AI wish I could generate AIM2000-contour plots (2D) fo= r analyzing my molecule =0Ausing the same basic set that I have used for op= timization. Here I am seeking =0Ayour comments to solve this issue.=0ALooki= ng for your kind words.=0A=0AThanking you,=0ADr. Ajayakumar M R=0ASchool of= Physical Sciences=0AJawaharlal Nehru University,=0ANew Delhi-110067=0AIndi= a.=0AContact: +91 9868637382=0AE-mail : mr.ajay.mr[]gmail.com=0A=0A=0A=0A-= =3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-= =0A= =0A=0Aloo= k up the X-Original-From: line in the mail header.=0A=0AE-mail to subscribe= rs: CHEMISTRY++ccl.net or use:=0A=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/= send_ccl_message=0A=0AE-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST++ccl.net o= r use=0A=A0 =A0 =A0=0A=0ASu= bscribe/Unsubscribe: =0A=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.= shtml=0A=0A=0A=0AJob:= http://www.ccl.net/jobs =0AConferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/an= nouncements/conferences/=0A=0ASearch Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry= /searchccl/index.shtml=0A=0AIf your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error,= check:=0A=A0 =A0 =A0=0A=0ARTFI: http://www= .ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/ --404364280-2104297607-1392574899=:90233 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Dr. Ajayakumar,

As you ment= ioned, the only software that supports auxiliary basis functions is AIMAll.= You have no choice unfortunately. AIM2000 neither supports auxiliary basis= functions nor g-functions; though, you will have no problem with that sinc= e you are working with aug-cc-pvtz basis set.

Good luck,
Cina

-------= -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cina Foroutan-Nejad,= PhD
National Cen= ter for Biochemical Researches,
Masaryk University, Brno,
Czech Republic
https://muni.academia.edu/CinaForoutan= Nejad
=



On Sunday, 16 = February 2014, 18:16, Ajayakumar M R mr.ajay.mr ~ gmail.com <owner-chemi= stry++ccl.net> wrote:
=
Sent to CCL by: "Ajayakumar M R" [mr.ajay.mr+*+gmail.com]
Dear = Subscribers,

I was using bp86/aug-cc-pvtz-pp for optimizing a molec= ule that having Te
atoms. The G09 keyword was GenECP. I could optimize = the molecule successfully
and wanted to generate a .WFN file for AIM200= 0 calculation. The G09 help told
me that " the .WFN file does not suppo= rt ECP basis sets.  We have
added support for this with the .WFX op= tion, Output=3DWFX, but as far as I
know this is only supported with Tod= d Keith's AIMAll package."
Currently we don't have AIMAll software.
<= br>I wish I could generate AIM2000-contour plots (2D) for analyzing my molecule
using the same basic set that I have used for optimization. H= ere I am seeking
your comments to solve this issue.
Looking for your= kind words.

Thanking you,
Dr. Ajayakumar M R
School of Physic= al Sciences
Jawaharlal Nehru University,
New Delhi-110067
India.Contact: +91 9868637382
E-mail : mr.ajay.mr[]gmail.com



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=
--404364280-2104297607-1392574899=:90233-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 17:04:00 2014 From: "Jim Kress ccl_nospam~~kressworks.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49703-140216131034-20280-CaMlRvNdwrbFHSxoBse7EQ**server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Jim Kress" Content-Language: en-us Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:10:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Jim Kress" [ccl_nospam/./kressworks.com] Has anyone bothered to ask the organizers of the "evil" ICQC about their supposed "gender inequality" issues? Has anyone asked about the speaker selection criteria? Has anyone allowed, or asked, the "evil" organizers of the ICQC to provide a response so the members of the community can get BOTH SIDES of the story? Has anyone determined the number of black/ Hispanic/ Asian/ American Indian/ etc. speakers to ensure there is no "racial inequality"? How about the number of speakers from every country on the planet to ensure these is no "ethnic inequality"? How about the height of the speakers? Has any ensured there is no "vertical inequality" by making sure that people of all stature are "properly" represented. What about weight? We wouldn't want to promote "Girth Inequality", now would we? What about age? Hair color? Shoe size? Marital status? Claimed sexual orientation? Eye color? Nose length? Ability to hear? Ability to see? Ability to walk? Ability to talk? Every other "disability" status? As one can see, once CCL starts down this path there is no end to the amount of whining and complaining that the list will have to endure. It will render CCL a wasteland of "Political Correctness". " Perhaps CCL should dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as these." Nonsense. If people want to discuss "gender inequality" they should start a forum on LinkedIn or Facebook or any of the many Social Media sites; or a WWMWICCL (We Want More Women I Computational Chemistry List) email list to which interested people may subscribe. If you INSIST on discussing this on CCL, the please place an identifying header on all your emails so that those of us who care about SCIENCE, as opposed to trendy whining about supposed "gender inequality" and other fashionable modes of Political Correctness can at least have a hope of filtering out all of the nonsensical content and peruse the SCIENTIFIC content. Jim Kress -----Original Message----- > From: owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com[*]ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com[*]ccl.net] On Behalf Of Joseph E Maxwell jaymax36..gmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:24 AM To: Kress, Jim Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC shame Sent to CCL by: Joseph E Maxwell [jaymax36%a%gmail.com] Re: zborowsk <=> Therein lies part of the problem. Perhaps CCL should dedicate a part of their platform to related social issues such as these. Theoretical Chemistry does not exist in a vacuum. Social issues do impact it, do not tell me that the contribution of women, blacks or other minorities (or from your vantage position that may even include Roma peoples too) should be ignored - for that matter, you are also saying that their labor could be appropriated. Is Theoretical Chemistry to be the preserve of a small unique privileged group. And BTW, for Krzysztof K. Zborowski the issue here is not "sex" but "gender" inequality as a representational issue. Granted that the space should be dedicated to Theoretical Chemistry, but had this original commentary, which is of importance to the community gone without your further opposing commentary, this would not be continuing. Thanks! On 2/15/2014 5:12 PM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] Well, could we > talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > Please > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James > brian.james.duke|a|gmail.com napisał(a): >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three >> poeple sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a >> member of the Academy, have made their views known to the Academy >> directly. Major international conferences should make sure there is a >> reasonable balance between men and women as well as from all >> countries in the world when selecting speakers. >> >> Brian Duke >> >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>> >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>> >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Kadir >>> ---http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 17:39:00 2014 From: "Jpd djukic**unistra.fr" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49704-140216131647-26051-Au+7hNCf0NqTHApqRGsSxA**server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Jpd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-76ED5CE9-1FAE-4261-A938-F60305CCC420 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:16:28 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Sent to CCL by: Jpd [djukic^^^unistra.fr] --Apple-Mail-76ED5CE9-1FAE-4261-A938-F60305CCC420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear listers,=20 I have no opinion on the icqc "case" The only stuff I can say is that gender equality is a real issue if not a struggle that can't be solved by a s= imple top of the hill action, it is an issue that must be addressed at the l= evel of elementary school, with new contents, where old stereotypes are stil= l persistent today. It is the duty of the educational authorities to change t= his situation. In France, the ministry of education has initiated a modest a= ction in that direction. I only hope that such old stereotypes have regresse= d in our enlightened academic community...unfortunately I fear that they are= still very persistent (from a rapid glance) and responsible for the major u= nbalance in the promotion processes of men and women engaged in academic car= riers...which favors the former as you might have guessed. I say this but overall I say nothing... ---------------------------------- Helas ! Envoy=C3=A9 de mon iPhone/sent from my iPhone, alas ! ---------------------------------- > Le 16 f=C3=A9vr. 2014 =C3=A0 10:19, "Ulrike Salzner salzner-*-gmail.com" <= owner-chemistry^-^ccl.net> a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Dear SIRS, > How can we talk about theoretical chemistry when we are ignored by the gen= tlemen? And please do not confuse gender issues with sex. > Ulrike Salzner >=20 >=20 >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 3:12 AM, zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl wrote: >>=20 >> Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] >> Well, >> could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? >> Please >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a|gma= il.com napisa=C5=82(a): >>> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " >>> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] >>> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple= >>> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the= >>> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major >>> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance= >>> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when >>> selecting speakers. >>>=20 >>> Brian Duke >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri >>> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] >>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>=20 >>>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of >>>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the >>>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. >>>>=20 >>>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the >>>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice >>>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. >>>> Even that would be unacceptable... >>>>=20 >>>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, >>>> Kadir >>>> --- >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Dear Colleague: >>>>=20 >>>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry >>>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting >>>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later >>>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the >>>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, >>>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of >>>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science >>>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of >>>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs >>>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. >>>>=20 >>>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in >>>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) >>>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure >>>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and >>>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and >>>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as >>>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these >>>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited >>>> to speak at these conferences. >>>>=20 >>>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by >>>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this >>>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it >>>> will take less than a minute). >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for your for your support. >>>>=20 >>>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University >>>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota >>>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: >>>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu >>> Adjunct Associate Professor >>> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences >>> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D= -http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/-- >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q >>=20 >>=20 >> Krzysztof K. Zborowski >> Faculty of Chemistry >> Jagiellonian University >> 3 Ingardena Street >> 30-060 Krakow >> Poland >> phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 >> fax: +48(12)634-05-15 >> email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl >> gg 3817259 >> skype kzys70 >> www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowsk >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D= -=20 >> E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|*|ccl.net or use: >> =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_m= essa=3D ge >>=20 >> E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|*|ccl.net or use >> =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_m= essa=3D ge >> http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/=3D sub_unsub.shtml >>=20>>=20 >> Job: http://www.ccl.n=3D et/jobs Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemi= st=3D ry/announcements/conferences/ >>=20 >> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.=3D shtml >> =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt >>=20=3D >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Assoc. Prof. Ulrike Sal=3D zner > Department of Chemistry > Bilkent University > 06800 Bilkent, Ank=3D ara --Apple-Mail-76ED5CE9-1FAE-4261-A938-F60305CCC420 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear listers, 
I have n= o opinion on the icqc "case"
The only stuff I can say is that
gender equality is a real issue if not a struggle that can't be solved= by a simple top of the hill action, it is an issue that must be addressed a= t the level of elementary school, with new contents, where old stereotypes a= re still persistent today. It is the duty of the educational authorities to c= hange this situation. In France, the ministry of education has initiated a m= odest action in that direction. I only hope that such old stereotypes have r= egressed in our enlightened academic community...unfortunately I fear that t= hey are still very persistent (from a rapid glance) and responsible for the m= ajor unbalance in the promotion processes of men and women engaged in academ= ic carriers...which favors the former as you might have guessed.
I= say this but overall I say nothing...

-------------------------= ---------
Helas ! Envoy=C3=A9 de mon iPhone/sent from my iPhone, alas !=
----------------------------------

Le 16 f=C3=A9vr.= 2014 =C3=A0 10:19, "Ulrike Salzner salzner-*-g= mail.com" <owner-chemistry= ^-^ccl.net> a =C3=A9crit :

=
Dear SIRS,
How can we talk about th= eoretical chemistry when we are ignored by the gentlemen? And please do not c= onfuse gender issues with sex.
Ulrike Salzner


On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 3:12 AM, zborowsk= zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl <owner-chemistry|*|ccl.net> wrote:

Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl]
Well,
could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....??
Please



W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James  brian.james.duke|a|<= a href=3D"http://gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gmail.com napisa=C5=82(a):=
Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James "
[brian.jam= es.duke---gmail.com]
I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poeple
= sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of the
= Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major
international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balance
= between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when
selecting speakers.

Brian Duke

On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri
dirikadir[a]gmail.com wro= te:

Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
Dear Colleagues,

I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of
the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the
choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.

I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the
leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice
of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality.
Even that would be unacceptable...

Professor Krylov's message follows below.

Best regards,
Kadir
---


Dear Colleague:

It happened again ---  another major theoretical chemistry
conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting
such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later
we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the
15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
http://www.icqc2015.or= g) conducted under the auspices of
International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science
(http://www.iaqms.org= ), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of
02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs
and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman.

Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure
track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and
other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as
theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these
women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited
to speak at these conferences.

Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this
biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it
will take less than a minute).

Thank you for your for your support.

Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences:
http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/con= ferences/>

--
   Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke)   Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu
                    Adjunc= t Associate Professor
            Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical= Sciences
      Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia=



-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-<= br> conferences:=3D"" http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferen= ces/--
= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q


Krzysztof K. Zborowski
Faculty of Chemistry
Jagiellonian University
3 Ingardena Street
30-060 Krakow
Poland
phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067
fax:  +48(12)634-05-15
email: zborowsk,chemia= .uj.edu.pl
gg 3817259
skype kzys70
www.chem= ia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowsk



-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-<= br
E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|*|ccl.net or use:
=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www= .ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messa=3D ge

E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|*|ccl.net or use
=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www= .ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messa=3D ge
http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/=3D sub_unsub.shtml

Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net

Job: http://www.ccl.n=3D et/jobs Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemist=3D ry/announcements/conferences/

Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/che= mistry/searchccl/index.=3D shtml
=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0http://www.ccl.net/spammer= s.txt

RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/<= /u>aboutccl/instructions/=3D





--
Assoc. Prof. Ulrike Sal=3D zner
Department of Chemistry
Bilkent University
06800 Bilkent, Ank=3D= ara
= --Apple-Mail-76ED5CE9-1FAE-4261-A938-F60305CCC420-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 18:14:00 2014 From: "Rajarshi Guha guhar*mail.nih.gov" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49705-140216134743-21232-ITj/YOQR5WfAWytVJyknFA()server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Rajarshi Guha Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111bbd0781c0c04f28a784e Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:47:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Rajarshi Guha [guhar,+,mail.nih.gov] --089e0111bbd0781c0c04f28a784e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just focusing on the science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) discriminatory practices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men and women are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree that your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying that for this conference there are no women whose ability, experience & stature compare to those of the male speakers? I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (academia, conferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importantly, there are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that impact the current situation. While we may not be in a situation to address such upstream factors, we can and should address problems that are closer to us - such as gender representation in conference. The key thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should not be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biases - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination. But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn't we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities? Nobody has said the community should accept bad science so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry that are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the men speaking at this conference? I'd be very interested in how many women were invited to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this conference? And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is an ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence for how similar problems in our community can be addressed. http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/03/would-i-attend-my-own-conferen.html http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-easiest-possible-way-to-increase-female-speakers-at-conferences/282858/ On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.]*[. outlook.com wrote: > > Dear Aurora, > > I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the > quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in > each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they > are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the > latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according > to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has > topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop > anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another > gender is more overrepresented. > > Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and > expertise, not gender. > > If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the > research, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons. > > The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance, it is > the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women). > > Cheers > > > > > From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net > > To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx.com > > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 > > > > > > Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] > > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > > merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the > > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but > > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > > discipline and not really about gender at all. > > > > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > > state-of-the-art. > > > > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > > conferences where they are unable to network with potential > collaborators, > > program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both > > ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the > > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for > solving > > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see > a > > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? > > > > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > > you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but > > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > > a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs. > > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not > > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, > > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. > > > > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but > > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. > > > > > > Cheers; > > Aurora > > > > > > > > > > Aurora Clark > > Associate Professor > > Department of Chemistry > > Washington State University > > Pullman, Wa 99164 > > Ph: 509-335-3362 > > Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > >Dear Colleagues, > > > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > > > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > > >be unacceptable... > > > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Kadir > > >--- > > > > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > > >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > > >single woman. > > > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > > >at these conferences. > > > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > > >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > > >less than a minute). > > > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > > > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > > >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > the strange characters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also> > > > > > > > > > > -- Rajarshi Guha | http://blog.rguha.net NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science --089e0111bbd0781c0c04f28a784e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just f= ocusing on the science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) di= scriminatory practices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case w= here men and women are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you&= #39;d agree that your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you in= deed saying that for this conference there are no women whose ability, expe= rience & stature compare to those of the male speakers?

I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in= science (academia, conferences etc) where women may be discriminated again= st. Importantly, there are many situations far upstream (say in retention o= f women in STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays disc= ussion that impact the current situation.=A0

While we may not be in a situation to address such upst= ream factors, we can and should address problems that are closer to us - su= ch as gender representation in conference.=A0

The = key thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women shoul= d not be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that = the skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious b= iases - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination.

But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn'= t we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities?=A0
=

Nobody has said the community should accept bad science= so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently= say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry t= hat are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the= men speaking at this conference?

I'd be very interested in how many women were invit= ed to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In= fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this con= ference?

And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is a= n ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence= for how similar problems in our community can be addressed.




On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.]*[.outlook.com <owner-chemistry]*[ccl.n= et> wrote:

Dear Aurora,

=A0I am not sure that the number of women or th= e number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics, the = level of experience built in each topic, and naturally the experience of th= e presenters, whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and = good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should b= e organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe= this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That doe= s however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, occas= ionally, another gender is more overrepresented.

Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expe= rtise, not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of= WHO is behind the research, the research will disappear and be replaced by= persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance,=A0 i= t is the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or wo= men).

Cheers



> From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net
> To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx= .com
> Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04= :12:00 +0000
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora&= quot; [auclark#,#wsu.edu]<= br> > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than
&= gt; merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about th= e
> repercussions of not including them and the implications to our f= ield by
> maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, bu= t
> inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemis= try as a
> discipline and not really about gender at all.
> > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of> scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of t= he
> recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in= the
> recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly need= ed
> in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the> ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art.
>
> It is harder for scientists to get = promoted if they are not invited to
> conferences where they are unab= le to network with potential collaborators,
> program officers, and r= eviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
> ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the=
> collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for= solving
> some complicated numerical problem because you had no oppo= rtunity to see a
> poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad<= br>> student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up pa= ying
> valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem = that has
> already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad work= ing
> in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology beca= use she
> doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes = in her potential?
>
> One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they pr= ovide a
> platform for showcasing a large group of people working on = a problem. If
> you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt= those you omit, but
> also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
> = a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs.> Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might n= ot
> matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied,=
> theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>
> So - I vie= w this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
> terrible i= t is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but
> also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what o= ur
> field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>
> <= br>> Cheers;
> Aurora
>
>
>
>
> = Aurora Clark
> Associate Professor
> Department of Chemistry
> Washington= State University
> Pullman, Wa 99164
> Ph: 509-335-3362
>= Fax: 509-335-8867
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/14 2:57 = PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
> <owner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> >Dear = Colleagues,
> >
> >I am posting this message on behalf of= professor Anna Krylov -one of the
> >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the cho= ice of
> >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
> ><= br>> >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the = leading
> >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of spe= akers
> >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. E= ven that would
> >be unacceptable...
> >
> >Prof= essor Krylov's message follows below.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Kadir
> >---
&g= t; >
> >
> >Dear Colleague:
> >
> >I= t happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference
> >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
&= gt; >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later = we are
> >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is = the 15th
> >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
> >http://www.icqc2015.org<= /a>) conducted under the auspices of International
> >Academy of Q= uantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will
> >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features = 24
> >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does n= ot include a
> >single woman.
> >
> >Are there n= o women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
> >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
> &= gt;lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other> >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
= > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well a= s
> >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these= women
> >are far more distinguished than many of the men being in= vited to speak
> >at these conferences.
> >
> >F= eeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
> >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
> >pr= actice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
>= >less than a minute).
> >
> >Thank you for your for your support.
> >
= > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> >Prof. Laura G= agliardi, University of Minnesota
> >Prof. Anna Krylov, University= of Southern California>
> >
>
>
>
> -=3D This is automatically add= ed to each message by the mailing script =3D-
> To recover the email = address of the author of the message, please change
> the strange cha= racters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml
>
&= gt; Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>
>
> Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chem= istry/announcements/conferences/
>
> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>
>
>= ;
>
>
>
>
=
=



--
Rajarshi Guha |=A0http://blog.rguha.net
NIH Center for Advancing Translational Scienc= e
--089e0111bbd0781c0c04f28a784e-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 18:49:00 2014 From: "Rajarshi Guha rajarshi.guha++gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49706-140216134955-23206-TEM+QCqOohK9HgpMIymT9Q^_^server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Rajarshi Guha Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01633aa8c6dcb104f28a80a6 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:49:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Rajarshi Guha [rajarshi.guha]*[gmail.com] --089e01633aa8c6dcb104f28a80a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just focusing on the science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) discriminatory practices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men and women are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree that your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying that for this conference there are no women whose ability, experience & stature compare to those of the male speakers? I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (academia, conferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importantly, there are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that impact the current situation. While we may not be in a situation to address such upstream factors, we can and should address problems that are closer to us - such as gender representation in conference. The key thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should not be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biases - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination. But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn't we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities? Nobody has said the community should accept bad science so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry that are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the men speaking at this conference? I'd be very interested in how many women were invited to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this conference? And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is an ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence for how similar problems in our community can be addressed. http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/03/would-i-attend-my-own-conferen.html http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-easiest-possible-way-to-increase-female-speakers-at-conferences/282858/ On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.*. outlook.com wrote: > > Dear Aurora, > > I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the > quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in > each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they > are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the > latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according > to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has > topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop > anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another > gender is more overrepresented. > > Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and > expertise, not gender. > > If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the > research, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons. > > The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance, it is > the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women). > > Cheers > > > > > From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net > > To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx.com > > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 > > > > > > Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] > > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > > merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the > > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but > > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > > discipline and not really about gender at all. > > > > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > > state-of-the-art. > > > > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > > conferences where they are unable to network with potential > collaborators, > > program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both > > ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the > > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for > solving > > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see > a > > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? > > > > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > > you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but > > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > > a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs. > > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not > > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, > > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. > > > > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but > > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. > > > > > > Cheers; > > Aurora > > > > > > > > > > Aurora Clark > > Associate Professor > > Department of Chemistry > > Washington State University > > Pullman, Wa 99164 > > Ph: 509-335-3362 > > Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > >Dear Colleagues, > > > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > > > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > > >be unacceptable... > > > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Kadir > > >--- > > > > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > > >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > > >single woman. > > > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > > >at these conferences. > > > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > > >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > > >less than a minute). > > > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > > > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > > >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > the strange characters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also> > > > > > > > > > > -- Rajarshi Guha | http://blog.rguha.net NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science --089e01633aa8c6dcb104f28a80a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just focusing on the = science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) discriminatory pr= actices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men and wo= men are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree tha= t your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying tha= t for this conference there are no women whose ability, experience & st= ature compare to those of the male speakers?

I thin= k no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (academia, c= onferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importantly, ther= e are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in STEM field= s beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that impact th= e current situation.=A0

While we may not be in= a situation to address such upstream factors, we can and should address pr= oblems that are closer to us - such as gender representation in conference.= =A0

The key thing here is = that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should not be invited o= r considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the skewed gender = distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biases - which is e= ven more pernicious than conscious discrimination.

But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn'= t we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities?=A0
=

Nobody has said the community should accept bad science= so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently= say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry t= hat are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the= men speaking at this conference?

I'd be very interested in how many women were invit= ed to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In= fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this con= ference?

And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is a= n ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence= for how similar problems in our community can be addressed.



On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.*.outlook.com <owner-chemistry*ccl.n= et> wrote:

Dear Aurora,

=A0I am not sure that the number of women or th= e number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics, the = level of experience built in each topic, and naturally the experience of th= e presenters, whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and = good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should b= e organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe= this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That doe= s however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, occas= ionally, another gender is more overrepresented.

Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expe= rtise, not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of= WHO is behind the research, the research will disappear and be replaced by= persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance,=A0 i= t is the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or wo= men).

Cheers



> From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net
> To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx= .com
> Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04= :12:00 +0000
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora&= quot; [auclark#,#wsu.edu]<= br> > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than
&= gt; merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about th= e
> repercussions of not including them and the implications to our f= ield by
> maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, bu= t
> inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemis= try as a
> discipline and not really about gender at all.
> > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of> scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of t= he
> recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in= the
> recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly need= ed
> in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the> ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art.
>
> It is harder for scientists to get = promoted if they are not invited to
> conferences where they are unab= le to network with potential collaborators,
> program officers, and r= eviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
> ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the=
> collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for= solving
> some complicated numerical problem because you had no oppo= rtunity to see a
> poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad<= br>> student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up pa= ying
> valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem = that has
> already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad work= ing
> in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology beca= use she
> doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes = in her potential?
>
> One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they pr= ovide a
> platform for showcasing a large group of people working on = a problem. If
> you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt= those you omit, but
> also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
> = a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs.> Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might n= ot
> matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied,=
> theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>
> So - I vie= w this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
> terrible i= t is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but
> also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what o= ur
> field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>
> <= br>> Cheers;
> Aurora
>
>
>
>
> = Aurora Clark
> Associate Professor
> Department of Chemistry
> Washington= State University
> Pullman, Wa 99164
> Ph: 509-335-3362
>= Fax: 509-335-8867
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/14 2:57 = PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
> <owner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> >Dear = Colleagues,
> >
> >I am posting this message on behalf of= professor Anna Krylov -one of the
> >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the cho= ice of
> >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
> ><= br>> >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the = leading
> >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of spe= akers
> >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. E= ven that would
> >be unacceptable...
> >
> >Prof= essor Krylov's message follows below.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Kadir
> >---
&g= t; >
> >
> >Dear Colleague:
> >
> >I= t happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference
> >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
&= gt; >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later = we are
> >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is = the 15th
> >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
> >http://www.icqc2015.org<= /a>) conducted under the auspices of International
> >Academy of Q= uantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will
> >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features = 24
> >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does n= ot include a
> >single woman.
> >
> >Are there n= o women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
> >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
> &= gt;lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other> >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
= > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well a= s
> >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these= women
> >are far more distinguished than many of the men being in= vited to speak
> >at these conferences.
> >
> >F= eeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
> >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
> >pr= actice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
>= >less than a minute).
> >
> >Thank you for your for your support.
> >
= > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> >Prof. Laura G= agliardi, University of Minnesota
> >Prof. Anna Krylov, University= of Southern California>
> >
>
>
>
> -=3D This is automatically add= ed to each message by the mailing script =3D-
> To recover the email = address of the author of the message, please change
> the strange cha= racters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml
>
&= gt; Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>
>
> Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chem= istry/announcements/conferences/
>
> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>
>
>= ;
>
>
>
>
=
=



--
Rajarshi Guh= a | http://blog.rguha.n= et
NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science
--089e01633aa8c6dcb104f28a80a6-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 19:24:00 2014 From: "Rajarshi Guha rajarshi.guha^-^gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49707-140216135223-25389-pNhmntXPTuOr6ODLLFC6aQ^server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Rajarshi Guha Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136ad2ed7f68704f28a88e3 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:52:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Rajarshi Guha [rajarshi.guha^gmail.com] --001a1136ad2ed7f68704f28a88e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just focusing on the science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) discriminatory practices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men and women are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree that your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying that for this conference there are no women whose ability, experience & stature compare to those of the male speakers? I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (academia, conferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importantly, there are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that impact the current situation. While we may not be in a situation to address such upstream factors, we can and should address problems that are closer to us - such as gender representation in conference. The key thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should not be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biases - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination. But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn't we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities? Nobody has said the community should accept bad science so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry that are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the men speaking at this conference? I'd be very interested in how many women were invited to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this conference? And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is an ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence for how similar problems in our community can be addressed. http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/03/would-i-attend-my-own-conferen.html http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-easiest-possible-way-to-increase-female-speakers-at-conferences/282858/ On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.[]. outlook.com wrote: > > Dear Aurora, > > I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the > quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in > each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they > are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the > latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according > to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has > topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop > anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another > gender is more overrepresented. > > Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and > expertise, not gender. > > If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the > research, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons. > > The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance, it is > the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women). > > Cheers > > > > > From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net > > To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx.com > > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 > > > > > > Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] > > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > > merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the > > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but > > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > > discipline and not really about gender at all. > > > > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > > state-of-the-art. > > > > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > > conferences where they are unable to network with potential > collaborators, > > program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both > > ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the > > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for > solving > > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see > a > > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? > > > > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > > you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but > > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > > a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs. > > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not > > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, > > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. > > > > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but > > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. > > > > > > Cheers; > > Aurora > > > > > > > > > > Aurora Clark > > Associate Professor > > Department of Chemistry > > Washington State University > > Pullman, Wa 99164 > > Ph: 509-335-3362 > > Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > >Dear Colleagues, > > > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > > > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > > >be unacceptable... > > > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Kadir > > >--- > > > > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > > >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > > >single woman. > > > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > > >at these conferences. > > > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > > >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > > >less than a minute). > > > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > > > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > > >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > the strange characters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also> > > > > > > > > > > -- Rajarshi Guha | http://blog.rguha.net NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science --001a1136ad2ed7f68704f28a88e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sergio, while this should be true, the fact is that just focusing on the = science implicitly accepts many (admittedly, very subtle) discriminatory pr= actices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men and wo= men are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree tha= t your idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying tha= t for this conference there are no women whose ability, experience & st= ature compare to those of the male speakers?

I thin= k no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (academia, c= onferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importantly, ther= e are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in STEM field= s beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that impact th= e current situation.=A0

While we may not be in= a situation to address such upstream factors, we can and should address pr= oblems that are closer to us - such as gender representation in conference.= =A0

The key thing here is = that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should not be invited o= r considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the skewed gender = distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biases - which is e= ven more pernicious than conscious discrimination.

But having been alerted to this fact, shouldn'= t we, as a community, make an effort to address these disparities?=A0
=

Nobody has said the community should accept bad science= so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently= say that there are no women in theoretical & computational chemistry t= hat are equivalent in stature, competency and scientific achievement to the= men speaking at this conference?

I'd be very interested in how many women were invit= ed to be plenary speakers and how many refused, versus the same for men. In= fact, were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this con= ference?

And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is a= n ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence= for how similar problems in our community can be addressed.




On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manze= tti.[].outlook.com <= owner-chemistr= y[]ccl.net> wrote:

Dear Aurora,

=A0I am not sure that the number of women or th= e number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics, the = level of experience built in each topic, and naturally the experience of th= e presenters, whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and = good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should b= e organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe= this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That doe= s however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, occas= ionally, another gender is more overrepresented.

Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expe= rtise, not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of= WHO is behind the research, the research will disappear and be replaced by= persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance,=A0 i= t is the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or wo= men).

Cheers



> From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net
> To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx= .com
> Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04= :12:00 +0000
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora&= quot; [auclark#,#wsu.edu]<= br> > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than
&= gt; merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about th= e
> repercussions of not including them and the implications to our f= ield by
> maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, bu= t
> inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemis= try as a
> discipline and not really about gender at all.
> > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of> scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of t= he
> recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in= the
> recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly need= ed
> in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the> ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art.
>
> It is harder for scientists to get = promoted if they are not invited to
> conferences where they are unab= le to network with potential collaborators,
> program officers, and r= eviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
> ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the=
> collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for= solving
> some complicated numerical problem because you had no oppo= rtunity to see a
> poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad<= br>> student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up pa= ying
> valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem = that has
> already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad work= ing
> in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology beca= use she
> doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes = in her potential?
>
> One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they pr= ovide a
> platform for showcasing a large group of people working on = a problem. If
> you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt= those you omit, but
> also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
> = a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs.> Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might n= ot
> matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied,=
> theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>
> So - I vie= w this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
> terrible i= t is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but
> also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what o= ur
> field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>
> <= br>> Cheers;
> Aurora
>
>
>
>
> = Aurora Clark
> Associate Professor
> Department of Chemistry
> Washington= State University
> Pullman, Wa 99164
> Ph: 509-335-3362
>= Fax: 509-335-8867
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/14 2:57 = PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
> <owner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> >Dear = Colleagues,
> >
> >I am posting this message on behalf of= professor Anna Krylov -one of the
> >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the cho= ice of
> >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
> ><= br>> >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the = leading
> >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of spe= akers
> >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. E= ven that would
> >be unacceptable...
> >
> >Prof= essor Krylov's message follows below.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Kadir
> >---
&g= t; >
> >
> >Dear Colleague:
> >
> >I= t happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference
> >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
&= gt; >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later = we are
> >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is = the 15th
> >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
> >http://www.icqc2015.org<= /a>) conducted under the auspices of International
> >Academy of Q= uantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will
> >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features = 24
> >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does n= ot include a
> >single woman.
> >
> >Are there n= o women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
> >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
> &= gt;lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other> >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
= > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well a= s
> >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these= women
> >are far more distinguished than many of the men being in= vited to speak
> >at these conferences.
> >
> >F= eeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
> >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
> >pr= actice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
>= >less than a minute).
> >
> >Thank you for your for your support.
> >
= > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> >Prof. Laura G= agliardi, University of Minnesota
> >Prof. Anna Krylov, University= of Southern California>
> >
>
>
>
> -=3D This is automatically add= ed to each message by the mailing script =3D-
> To recover the email = address of the author of the message, please change
> the strange cha= racters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml
>
&= gt; Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>
>
> Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chem= istry/announcements/conferences/
>
> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>
>
>= ;
>
>
>
>
=
=



--
Rajarshi Guh= a | http://blog.rguha.n= et
NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science
--001a1136ad2ed7f68704f28a88e3-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 19:59:00 2014 From: "Clark, Aurora auclark_._wsu.edu" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49708-140216140814-17791-fM5E82kmxzNyHkwU2PAOww###server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Clark, Aurora" Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CF26452538CE8auclarkwsuedu_" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:08:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark()wsu.edu] --_000_CF26452538CE8auclarkwsuedu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sergio - Of course it is true that in a highly specialized arena there will be a non= -even distribution of gender amongst highly qualified experts, ICQC is not = one of those conferences. Further, in this particular instance, it is not = even that there are no female speakers, there are no female Chairs or honor= ary Chairs either (see the original email posting). You may view a conference as being solely a scientific platform =96 but th= e reality of all conferences is that they are just as much about networking= as they are about science. It is where undergraduates see potential gradua= te schools, it is where graduate students learn about people they may want = to work for for post-docs, it is where assistant professors meet future pro= gram officers and collaborators, etc. Thus there are political consequence= s in terms of people's career decisions and the opportunities made availabl= e to them. Working on the premise that there are qualified women scientists in the are= a of theoretical chemistry (which there are, well beyond the ability to giv= e a good "teaching" talk) =96 it should be self-evident that including them= makes your conference makes it a better and stronger conference on many le= vels. It is the responsibility of conference organizers to be aware enough = about the impact that their decisions make upon others in the discipline. W= e do not exist in a vacuum. A Aurora Clark Associate Professor Department of Chemistry Washington State University Pullman, Wa 99164 Ph: 509-335-3362 Fax: 509-335-8867 > From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti..outlook.com" > Reply-To: CCL Subscribers > Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014 3:25 AM To: Aurora Clark > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Dear Aurora, I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the qu= ality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in e= ach topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they are= men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the latter p= articularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according to topic= s of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has topics th= at are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop anyone fro= m organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another gender is mor= e overrepresented. Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expertis= e, not gender. If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the researc= h, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons. The person behind the research is not really of outomst relevant, it is the= research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women). Cheers > From: owner-chemistry|ccl.net > To: sergio.manzetti|gmx.com > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 > > > Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > discipline and not really about gender at all. > > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > state-of-the-art. > > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators= , > program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both > ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solvin= g > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see = a > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? > > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs. > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. > > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. > > > Cheers; > Aurora > > > > > Aurora Clark > Associate Professor > Department of Chemistry > Washington State University > Pullman, Wa 99164 > Ph: 509-335-3362 > Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > wrote: > > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > >Dear Colleagues, > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > >be unacceptable... > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > >Best regards, > >Kadir > >--- > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > >single woman. > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > >at these conferences. > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > >less than a minute). > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > > > > > > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D-> the strange characters on the top line to the | sign. You can also> > E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|ccl.net or use:> > E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|ccl.net or use> =3Dr> > --_000_CF26452538CE8auclarkwsuedu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <793AA107C9CA444B874BE8068301474A!=!ad.wsu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Sergio -

Of course it is true that in a highly specialized arena there will be = a non-even distribution of gender amongst highly qualified experts, ICQC is= not one of those conferences.  Further, in this particular instance, = it is not even that there are no female speakers, there are no female Chairs or honorary Chairs either (see the or= iginal email posting).

 You may view a conference as being solely a scientific platform = =96 but the reality of all conferences is that they are just as much about = networking as they are about science. It is where undergraduates see potent= ial graduate schools, it is where graduate students learn about people they may want to work for for post-docs, it is= where assistant professors meet future program officers and collaborators,= etc.  Thus there are political consequences in terms of people's care= er decisions and the opportunities made available to them. 

Working on the premise that there are qualified women scientists in th= e area of theoretical chemistry (which there are, well beyond the ability t= o give a good "teaching" talk) =96 it should be self-evident that= including them makes your conference makes it a better and stronger conference on many levels. It is the responsibili= ty of conference organizers to be aware enough about the impact that their = decisions make upon others in the discipline. We do not exist in a vacuum.&= nbsp;

A

Aurora Clark
Associate Professor
Department of Chemistry
Washington State University
Pullman, Wa 99164
Ph: 509-335-3362
Fax: 509-335-8867


From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.= manzetti..outlook.com" <= owner-chemistry!=!ccl.net>
Reply-To: CCL Subscribers <chemistry!=!ccl.net>
Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014 3:2= 5 AM
To: Aurora Clark <auclark!=!wsu.edu>
Subject: CCL: ICQC shame


Dear Aurora,

 I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines t= he quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built= in each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether the= y are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Confer= ences should be organized according to topics of research, independently of= gender. Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one ge= nder. That does however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another ge= nder is more overrepresented.

Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expertis= e, not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the researc= h, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outomst relevant, it is the= research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women).
Cheers



> From: owner-chemistry|ccl.net
> To: sergio.manzetti|gmx.com
> Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu]
> It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than
> merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about t= he
> repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field = by
> maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, bu= t
> inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry a= s a
> discipline and not really about gender at all.
>
> Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly need= ed
> in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the
> ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific
> state-of-the-art.
>
> It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to=
> conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborat= ors,
> program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works bo= th
> ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the=
> collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for sol= ving
> some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to s= ee a
> poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad<= br> > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up payin= g
> valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has=
> already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad work= ing
> in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she=
> doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potentia= l?
>
> One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. = If
> you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, = but
> also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
> a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our progra= ms.
> Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not=
> matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied,=
> theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>
> So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
> terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but=
> also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what o= ur
> field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>
>
> Cheers;
> Aurora
>
>
>
>
> Aurora Clark
> Associate Professor
> Department of Chemistry
> Washington State University
> Pullman, Wa 99164
> Ph: 509-335-3362
> Fax: 509-335-8867
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
> <owner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> >Dear Colleagues,
> >
> >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one = of the
> >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the cho= ice of
> >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
> >
> >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the lea= ding
> >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of spe= akers
> >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that = would
> >be unacceptable...
> >
> >Professor Krylov's message follows below.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Kadir
> >---
> >
> >
> >Dear Colleague:
> >
> >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conferen= ce
> >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
> >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we = are
> >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
> >http://www.icqc2015.org) c= onducted under the auspices of International
> >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will
> >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features = 24
> >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not inc= lude a
> >single woman.
> >
> >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in<= br> > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
> >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure t= rack
> >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
> >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well a= s
> >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these= women
> >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to s= peak
> >at these conferences.
> >
> >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours = by
> >signing this open letter (http://= chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
> >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will t= ake
> >less than a minute).
> >
> >Thank you for your for your support.
> >
> >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
> >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California>
> >
>
>
>
> -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script= =3D-
> To recover the email address of the author of the message, please chan= ge
> the strange characters on the top line to the | sign. You can also
>
>
> E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|ccl.net or use:
> http://www= .ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>
> E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|ccl.net or use
> http://www= .ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>
>
>
>
> Before posting, check wait time at: htt= p://www.ccl.net
>
>
> Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/
>
> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>
>
> =3Dr>>
> RTFI: = http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/
>
>
--_000_CF26452538CE8auclarkwsuedu_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 20:34:00 2014 From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti]*[outlook.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49709-140216143547-10560-h/CxNDci0v+XlZe2X8CVug%a%server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sergio Manzetti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b1911005-e25f-4de7-92cf-bfaa2a14e912_" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 20:35:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sergio Manzetti [sergio.manzetti]=[outlook.com] --_b1911005-e25f-4de7-92cf-bfaa2a14e912_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rajrashi et al. I think your assumptions and propositions may be right=2C b= ut this is not the right place to develop them. You should get in contact w= ith your respective political parties and put on the program for 2015 on ho= w to promote women in science. Cheers Sergio Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 13:52:01 -0500 Subject: Re: CCL: ICQC shame > From: rajarshi.guha_._gmail.com To: chemistry_._ccl.net CC: sergio.manzetti_._outlook.com=3B auclark_._wsu.edu Sergio=2C while this should be true=2C the fact is that just focusing on th= e science implicitly accepts many (admittedly=2C very subtle) discriminator= y practices. Your approach is perfectly fine in the ideal case where men an= d women are indeed treated completely equally. I'm sure you'd agree that yo= ur idealized model does not match reality. Or are you indeed saying that fo= r this conference there are no women whose ability=2C experience & stature = compare to those of the male speakers?=0A= I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (acade= mia=2C conferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Important= ly=2C there are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in = STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion that= impact the current situation. =0A= While we may not be in a situation to address such upstream factors=2C we c= an and should address problems that are closer to us - such as gender repre= sentation in conference. =0A= The key thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women s= hould not be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact t= hat the skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscio= us biases - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination. =0A= But having been alerted to this fact=2C shouldn't we=2C as a community=2C m= ake an effort to address these disparities?=20 Nobody has said the community should accept bad science so as to adjust gen= der ratios in the speaker list. But can you confidently say that there are = no women in theoretical & computational chemistry that are equivalent in st= ature=2C competency and scientific achievement to the men speaking at this = conference?=0A= I'd be very interested in how many women were invited to be plenary speaker= s and how many refused=2C versus the same for men. In fact=2C were there an= y women on the organizing/program commitee for this conference?=0A= And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is an ongoing issue with= many tech conferences and there's ample precedence for how similar problem= s in our community can be addressed.=0A= http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/03/would-i-attend-my-own-conferen.html http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/01/the-easiest-possible-= way-to-increase-female-speakers-at-conferences/282858/=0A= On Sun=2C Feb 16=2C 2014 at 6:27 AM=2C Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti._._.ou= tlook.com wrote: =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Dear Aurora=2C I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the qu= ality of a conference. It is the topics=2C the level of experience built in= each topic=2C and naturally the experience of the presenters=2C whether th= ey are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM=2C the = latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according = to topics of research=2C independently of gender. Maybe this conference has= topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however=2C not sto= p anyone from organizing another conference=2C where=2C occasionally=2C ano= ther gender is more overrepresented.=20 =0A= Again=2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance and expe= rtise=2C not gender. If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the researc= h=2C the research will disappear and be replaced by persons.=20 =0A= The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance=2C it is= the research=2C where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or wome= n). Cheers > From: owner-chemistry(0)ccl.net =0A= > To: sergio.manzetti(0)gmx.com > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 >=20 >=20 > Sent to CCL by: "Clark=2C Aurora" [auclark#=2C#wsu.edu] =0A= > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > merely including women in major theoretical conferences=2C it is about th= e > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by =0A= > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted=2C but > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a > discipline and not really about gender at all. >=20 =0A= > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > scientist's careers=2C not only politically=2C but also in terms of the > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the =0A= > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific =0A= > state-of-the-art. >=20 > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators= =2C > program officers=2C and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works bot= h =0A= > ways=2C in that not only does it help the female scientist=2C but also th= e > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solvin= g > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see = a =0A= > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has =0A= > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? =0A= >=20 > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > you omit an entire population=2C then you not only hurt those you omit=2C= but =0A= > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > a research program=2C not to mention recruiting new talent to our program= s. > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually=2C it might not =0A= > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure=2C non-applied= =2C > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. >=20 > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline=2C but =0A= > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. >=20 >=20 > Cheers=3B > Aurora >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Aurora Clark =0A= > Associate Professor > Department of Chemistry > Washington State University > Pullman=2C Wa 99164 > Ph: 509-335-3362 > Fax: 509-335-8867 =0A= >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > wrote: =0A= >=20 > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > >Dear Colleagues=2C > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the =0A= > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > >I would always like to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the leadi= ng =0A= > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > >be unacceptable... > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. =0A= > > > >Best regards=2C > >Kadir > >--- > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference =0A= > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th =0A= > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which wi= ll =0A= > >be held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program features 24 > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > >single woman. > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in =0A= > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track =0A= > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > >computational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well a= s =0A= > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > >at these conferences. > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by =0A= > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > >practice=2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > >less than a minute). =0A= > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > >Prof. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota > >Prof. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California> =0A= > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D- > To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C please chang= e > the strange characters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also =0A= > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20>=20 > Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net =0A= >=20>=20=0A= >=20 > If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check: > >=20 > >=20 >=20 =0A= =0A= --=20 Rajarshi Guha | http://blog.rguha.net NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science =0A= = --_b1911005-e25f-4de7-92cf-bfaa2a14e912_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rajrashi et al. I think your ass= umptions and propositions may be right=2C but this is not the right place t= o develop them. You should get in contact with your respective political pa= rties and put on the program for 2015 on how to promote women in science.
Cheers

Sergio


Date: Su= n=2C 16 Feb 2014 13:52:01 -0500
Subject: Re: CCL: ICQC shame
From: ra= jarshi.guha_._gmail.com
To: chemistry_._ccl.net
CC: sergio.manzetti_._outlo= ok.com=3B auclark_._wsu.edu

Sergio=2C while this should be tr= ue=2C the fact is that just focusing on the science implicitly accepts many= (admittedly=2C very subtle) discriminatory practices. Your approach is per= fectly fine in the ideal case where men and women are indeed treated comple= tely equally. I'm sure you'd agree that your idealized model does not match= reality. Or are you indeed saying that for this conference there are no wo= men whose ability=2C experience &=3B stature compare to those of the mal= e speakers?
=0A=
I think no one would disagree that there are many aspects in science (acad= emia=2C conferences etc) where women may be discriminated against. Importan= tly=2C there are many situations far upstream (say in retention of women in= STEM fields beginning from the high school level) of todays discussion tha= t impact the current situation. =3B
=0A=

While we= may not be in a situation to address such upstream factors=2C we can and s= hould address problems that are closer to us - such as gender representatio= n in conference. =3B
=0A=

The key = thing here is that (I hope) nobody consciously decided that women should no= t be invited or considered for any of the plenary talks. The fact that the = skewed gender distribution did happen is an indication of unconscious biase= s - which is even more pernicious than conscious discrimination.
=0A=

But having been alerted to this fact=2C shouldn't = we=2C as a community=2C make an effort to address these disparities? = =3B

Nobody has said the community should accept ba= d science so as to adjust gender ratios in the speaker list. But can you co= nfidently say that there are no women in theoretical &=3B computational = chemistry that are equivalent in stature=2C competency and scientific achie= vement to the men speaking at this conference?
=0A=

I'd be very interested in how many women were invited t= o be plenary speakers and how many refused=2C versus the same for men. In f= act=2C were there any women on the organizing/program commitee for this con= ference?
=0A=

And to end - this is not unique to comp chem. This is a= n ongoing issue with many tech conferences and there's ample precedence for= how similar problems in our community can be addressed.
=0A=
=0A=



On Sun=2C Feb 16=2C 2014 at 6:27 AM=2C Sergio Manzetti = sergio.manzetti._._.outlook.= com <=3Bowner-chemistry_._ccl.net>=3B wrote:
=0A=
=0A= =0A= =0A=

=0A= =0A= =0A=
Dear Aurora=2C

 =3BI am not sure that the number of wome= n or the number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topic= s=2C the level of experience built in each topic=2C and naturally the exper= ience of the presenters=2C whether they are men or women. I have seen both = good men and good women in QM=2C the latter particularly in teaching. Confe= rences should be organized according to topics of research=2C independently= of gender. Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one= gender. That does however=2C not stop anyone from organizing another confe= rence=2C where=2C occasionally=2C another gender is more overrepresented. <= br>=0A=
Again=2C the outfall of this is in the topic=2C scientific advance and = expertise=2C not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in te= rms of WHO is behind the research=2C the research will disappear and be rep= laced by persons.
=0A=
The person behind the research is not really of outmost relevance=2C&nb= sp=3B it is the research=2C where I guess all researchers would agree one (= men or women).

Cheers



>=3B From: owner-chemist= ry(0)ccl.net
=0A= >=3B To: sergio.manzetti(0)g= mx.com
>=3B Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
>=3B Date: Sun=2C 16 Feb= 2014 04:12:00 +0000
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B Sent to CCL by: "Clark= =2C Aurora" [auclark#=2C#wsu.e= du]
=0A= >=3B It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than>=3B merely including women in major theoretical conferences=2C it is ab= out the
>=3B repercussions of not including them and the implications = to our field by
=0A= >=3B maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted= =2C but
>=3B inherently about the growth and development of theoretica= l chemistry as a
>=3B discipline and not really about gender at all.>=3B
=0A= >=3B Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of<= br>>=3B scientist's careers=2C not only politically=2C but also in terms = of the
>=3B recognition and distribution of the new work they produce = and in the
=0A= >=3B recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly ne= eded
>=3B in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to t= he
>=3B ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scienti= fic
=0A= >=3B state-of-the-art.
>=3B
>=3B It is harder for scientists t= o get promoted if they are not invited to
>=3B conferences where they = are unable to network with potential collaborators=2C
>=3B program off= icers=2C and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
=0A= >=3B ways=2C in that not only does it help the female scientist=2C but al= so the
>=3B collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algor= ithm for solving
>=3B some complicated numerical problem because you h= ad no opportunity to see a
=0A= >=3B poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a gra= d
>=3B student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end u= p paying
>=3B valuable research dollars for this student to solve a pr= oblem that has
=0A= >=3B already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad wo= rking
>=3B in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology = because she
>=3B doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believe= s in her potential?
=0A= >=3B
>=3B One of the beautiful things about conferences is that the= y provide a
>=3B platform for showcasing a large group of people worki= ng on a problem. If
>=3B you omit an entire population=2C then you not= only hurt those you omit=2C but
=0A= >=3B also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
>= =3B a research program=2C not to mention recruiting new talent to our progr= ams.
>=3B Without these things we degrade our field and eventually=2C = it might not
=0A= >=3B matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure=2C non-appl= ied=2C
>=3B theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>=3B
>= =3B So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
&= gt=3B terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline=2C = but
=0A= >=3B also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what= our
>=3B field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>=3B
= >=3B
>=3B Cheers=3B
>=3B Aurora
>=3B
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B
>=3B Aurora Clark
=0A= >=3B Associate Professor
>=3B Department of Chemistry
>=3B Wash= ington State University
>=3B Pullman=2C Wa 99164
>=3B Ph: 509-335-3362
>=3B Fax: 509-335-= 8867
=0A= >=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B On= 2/15/14 2:57 PM=2C "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
>=3B <=3Bowner-chemistry{=3D}ccl.net>=3B wrote:
=0A= >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BSent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirika= dir ~ gmail.com]
>= =3B >=3BDear Colleagues=2C
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BI am posting = this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the
=0A= >=3B >=3Bmany outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the= choice of
>=3B >=3Bspeakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
&g= t=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BI would always like to think of us=2C scientist= s=2C as some of the leading
=0A= >=3B >=3Bfigures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of= speakers
>=3B >=3Bfor this conference was just a statistical abnorm= ality. Even that would
>=3B >=3Bbe unacceptable...
>=3B >=3B<= br>>=3B >=3BProfessor Krylov's message follows below.
=0A= >=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BBest regards=2C
>=3B >=3BKadir
>= =3B >=3B---
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BDear Collea= gue:
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BIt happened again --- another major = theoretical chemistry conference
=0A= >=3B >=3Bfeatures an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such<= br>>=3B >=3Bconferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years la= ter we are
>=3B >=3Bstill seeing such overt discrimination. This tim= e it is the 15th
=0A= >=3B >=3BInternational Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C
>=3B= >=3Bhttp://www.icq= c2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International
>=3B >= =3BAcademy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which will
=0A= >=3B >=3Bbe held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program f= eatures 24
>=3B >=3Binvited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chair= s and does not include a
>=3B >=3Bsingle woman.
>=3B >=3B
= >=3B >=3BAre there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women= in
=0A= >=3B >=3BTheoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
&g= t=3B >=3Blists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure= track
=0A= >=3B >=3Bacademic positions or equivalent positions in industry and oth= er
>=3B >=3Bresearch establishments pursuing research in theoretical= and
>=3B >=3Bcomputational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material sc= ience=2C as well as
=0A= >=3B >=3Btheoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of t= hese women
>=3B >=3Bare far more distinguished than many of the men = being invited to speak
>=3B >=3Bat these conferences.
>=3B >= =3B
>=3B >=3BFeeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voi= ce to ours by
=0A= >=3B >=3Bsigning this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
>=3B &= gt=3Bpractice=2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will tak= e
>=3B >=3Bless than a minute).
=0A= >=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BThank you for your for your support.
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3BProf. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University
&g= t=3B >=3BProf. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota
>=3B >= =3BProf. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California>=3B
=0A= >=3B >=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B -=3D This is autom= atically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-
>=3B To reco= ver the email address of the author of the message=2C please change
>= =3B the strange characters on the top line to the (0) sign. You can also=0A= >=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
&g= t=3B
>=3B
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.sht= ml
>=3B
>=3B Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
=0A= >=3B
>=3B
>=3B Conferences: http://server.ccl.ne= t/chemistry/announcements/conferences/
>=3B
>=3B Search Mess= ages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
=0A= >=3B
>=3B If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:<= br>>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
<= /div>
=0A=
=0A=



--
Rajarshi Guh= a | http://blog.rguha.n= et
NIH Center for Advancing Translational Science
=0A=
= --_b1911005-e25f-4de7-92cf-bfaa2a14e912_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 21:09:01 2014 From: "Sebastian Kozuch seb.kozuch.:.gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49710-140216150112-901-SlGYGGzN40/oWCtOOtG77g**server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sebastian Kozuch Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010502040501000104080505" Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:01:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sebastian Kozuch [seb.kozuch-#-gmail.com] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010502040501000104080505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, I wasn't going to write since I didn't want to add fuel to the theoretical fire of a chain of mails that was expected to grow exponentially. However, some of the last messages called my attention. So here is my dose of hydrocarbons: 1) In some languages "gender" and "sex" are the same word, so you can forgive those mistakes. 2) People that think that "Conferences should be organized according to topics of research, independently of gender" are right, in an ideal world. 3) People that think that "Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of scientist's careers" are also right, showing that we live in a very un-ideal world. 4) Let's face it, most high level scientific societies are mostly composed of senior white men coming from highly developed countries. The reasons for that are a matter for another chain of mails. 5) So it is not unexpected that if you want to prepare a conference with the "crème de la crème", the speakers will probably be senior white men coming from highly developed countries. A matter of statistics. That is what I see in the ICQC meeting (there are several orientals in the speaker list, but hey, it's in Beijing!). 6) Having said that, not making an effort to invite non-senior white men coming from highly developed countries shows a lack of sensitivity for the under-represented colleagues (I wouldn't call women a "minority"). 7) Because of that, the circle of "we are the best since we are invited to the best conferences since we are the best" will never be broken. And you are not helping succeed some of the potentially brightest minds (women or any other under-represented people). 8) That is why the term "positive discrimination" was coined. It doesn't need to be a "quota", but not one woman, not one African, Latin-american, eastern-European, south-eastern Asiatic, etc, to this conference makes me wonder if anyone of the organizers thought about helping someone outside their small circle (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). 9) I never thought of this issue in theoretical chemistry until I read the letter from Emily Carter, Anna Krylov and Laura Gagliardi. So I'm in favor of including these topics in CCL. 10) Maybe I can include here the famous quote by Hillel (ending with a quote is always refreshing in a long text or seminar): "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" Best, Sebastian On 2/16/2014 5:25 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti..outlook.com wrote: > > Dear Aurora, > > I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines > the quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience > built in each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, > whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and good > women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should > be organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. > Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one > gender. That does however, not stop anyone from organizing another > conference, where, occasionally, another gender is more overrepresented. > > Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and > expertise, not gender. > > If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the > research, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons. > > The person behind the research is not really of outomst relevant, it > is the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or > women). > > Cheers > > > > > From: owner-chemistry|ccl.net > > To: sergio.manzetti|gmx.com > > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > > Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000 > > > > > > Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu] > > It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than > > merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the > > repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by > > maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but > > inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry > as a > > discipline and not really about gender at all. > > > > Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of > > scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the > > recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the > > recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed > > in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the > > ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific > > state-of-the-art. > > > > It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to > > conferences where they are unable to network with potential > collaborators, > > program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both > > ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the > > collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for > solving > > some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to > see a > > poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad > > student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying > > valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has > > already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad > working > > in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she > > doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential? > > > > One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a > > platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If > > you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you > omit, but > > also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop > > a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our > programs. > > Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not > > matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied, > > theoretical chemistry anymore anyways. > > > > So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how > > terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but > > also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our > > field will look like 20 or 50 years from now. > > > > > > Cheers; > > Aurora > > > > > > > > > > Aurora Clark > > Associate Professor > > Department of Chemistry > > Washington State University > > Pullman, Wa 99164 > > Ph: 509-335-3362 > > Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > >Dear Colleagues, > > > > > >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one > of the > > >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the > choice of > > >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > > > >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > > >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > > >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > > >be unacceptable... > > > > > >Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Kadir > > >--- > > > > > > > > >Dear Colleague: > > > > > >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > > >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > > >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > > >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > > >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > > >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > > >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > > >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > > >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not > include a > > >single woman. > > > > > >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > > >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > > >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > > >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > > >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > > >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > > >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these > women > > >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > > >at these conferences. > > > > > >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > > >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > > >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > > >less than a minute). > > > > > >Thank you for your for your support. > > > > > >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > > >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > > >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > the strange characters on the top line to the | sign. You can also> > > > E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|ccl.net or use:> > > > E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|ccl.net or use> > => > > > -- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ..........Sebastian Kozuch........... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ......University of North Texas...... ..........Denton, Texas, USA......... ........ seb.kozuch^_^gmail.com ....... http://yfaat.ch.huji.ac.il/kozuch.htm xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx --------------010502040501000104080505 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear all,
I wasn't going to write since I didn't want to add fuel to the theoretical fire of a chain of mails that was expected to grow exponentially. However, some of the last messages called my attention. So here is my dose of hydrocarbons:

1) In some languages "gender" and "sex" are the same word, so you can forgive those mistakes.

2) People that think that "Conferences should be organized according to topics of research, independently of gender" are right, in an ideal world.

3) People that think that "Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of scientist's careers" are also right, showing that we live in a very un-ideal world.

4) Let's face it, most high level scientific societies are mostly composed of senior white men coming from highly developed countries. The reasons for that are a matter for another chain of mails.

5) So it is not unexpected that if you want to prepare a conference with the "crème de la crème", the speakers will probably be senior white men coming from highly developed countries. A matter of statistics. That is what I see in the ICQC meeting (there are several orientals in the speaker list, but hey, it's in Beijing!).

6) Having said that, not making an effort to invite non-senior white men coming from highly developed countries shows a lack of sensitivity for the under-represented colleagues (I wouldn't call women a "minority").

7) Because of that, the circle of "we are the best since we are invited to the best conferences since we are the best" will never be broken. And you are not helping succeed some of the potentially brightest minds (women or any other under-represented people).

8) That is why the term "positive discrimination" was coined. It doesn't need to be a "quota", but not one woman, not one African, Latin-american, eastern-European, south-eastern Asiatic, etc, to this conference makes me wonder if anyone of the organizers thought about helping someone outside their small circle (please correct me if I'm wrong on this).

9) I never thought of this issue in theoretical chemistry until I read the letter from Emily Carter, Anna Krylov and Laura Gagliardi. So I'm in favor of including these topics in CCL.

10) Maybe I can include here the famous quote by Hillel (ending with a quote is always refreshing in a long text or seminar):
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?"

Best,
Sebastian



On 2/16/2014 5:25 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti..outlook.com wrote:

Dear Aurora,

 I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another gender is more overrepresented.

Again, the outfall of this is in the topic, scientific advance and expertise, not gender.

If one starts finding missing aspects in terms of WHO is behind the research, the research will disappear and be replaced by persons.

The person behind the research is not really of outomst relevant, it is the research, where I guess all researchers would agree one (men or women).

Cheers



> From: owner-chemistry|ccl.net
> To: sergio.manzetti|gmx.com
> Subject: CCL: ICQC shame
> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:12:00 +0000
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: "Clark, Aurora" [auclark#,#wsu.edu]
> It is important to point out that this issue is much broader than
> merely including women in major theoretical conferences, it is about the
> repercussions of not including them and the implications to our field by
> maintaining a status quo that is closed minded. It is multifaceted, but
> inherently about the growth and development of theoretical chemistry as a
> discipline and not really about gender at all.
>
> Omitting women from major conferences affects a very large swath of
> scientist's careers, not only politically, but also in terms of the
> recognition and distribution of the new work they produce and in the
> recruitment and education of talented young people that are badly needed
> in any discipline in order for it to keep its relevance to the
> ever-changing tides of federal funding and an evolving scientific
> state-of-the-art.
>
> It is harder for scientists to get promoted if they are not invited to
> conferences where they are unable to network with potential collaborators,
> program officers, and reviewers of their dossiers. Networking works both
> ways, in that not only does it help the female scientist, but also the
> collaborator...what if you miss out on the next best algorithm for solving
> some complicated numerical problem because you had no opportunity to see a
> poster or talk from said female scientist? What if you pay for a grad
> student to work on this complicated numerical problem and end up paying
> valuable research dollars for this student to solve a problem that has
> already been addressed? What if the next Einstein is an undergrad working
> in your group and she decides she wants to go into Biology because she
> doesn't see anyone that respects her ideas or believes in her potential?
>
> One of the beautiful things about conferences is that they provide a
> platform for showcasing a large group of people working on a problem. If
> you omit an entire population, then you not only hurt those you omit, but
> also yourself and your own opportunities to learn and develop
> a research program, not to mention recruiting new talent to our programs.
> Without these things we degrade our field and eventually, it might not
> matter anymore because no one will see the value in pure, non-applied,
> theoretical chemistry anymore anyways.
>
> So - I view this string not merely about echoing the chorus of how
> terrible it is that there may be discrimination in our discipline, but
> also in the health and development of theoretical chemistry and what our
> field will look like 20 or 50 years from now.
>
>
> Cheers;
> Aurora
>
>
>
>
> Aurora Clark
> Associate Professor
> Department of Chemistry
> Washington State University
> Pullman, Wa 99164
> Ph: 509-335-3362
> Fax: 509-335-8867
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/14 2:57 PM, "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com"
> <owner-chemistry{=}ccl.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> >Dear Colleagues,
> >
> >I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the
> >many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of
> >speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
> >
> >I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading
> >figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers
> >for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would
> >be unacceptable...
> >
> >Professor Krylov's message follows below.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Kadir
> >---
> >
> >
> >Dear Colleague:
> >
> >It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference
> >features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such
> >conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are
> >still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th
> >International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
> >http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International
> >Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will
> >be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24
> >invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a
> >single woman.
> >
> >Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
> >Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
> >lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track
> >academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other
> >research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
> >computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as
> >theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women
> >are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak
> >at these conferences.
> >
> >Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by
> >signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
> >practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
> >less than a minute).
> >
> >Thank you for your for your support.
> >
> >Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> >Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
> >Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> the strange characters on the top line to the | sign. You can also
>
>
> E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY|ccl.net or use:
> http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>
> E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST|ccl.net or use
> http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message
>
>
>
>
> Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>
>
> Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/
>
> Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>
>
> =
>
> RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/
>
> 


-- 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
..........Sebastian Kozuch...........
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
......University of North Texas......
..........Denton, Texas, USA.........
........ seb.kozuch^_^gmail.com .......
http://yfaat.ch.huji.ac.il/kozuch.htm
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------------010502040501000104080505-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 21:44:00 2014 From: "Jason Swails jason.swails]![gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49711-140216153014-27395-QEOs90hWdjt8G9H28b8s0w^^^server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Jason Swails Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c23994b04a5404f28be74e Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 15:30:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Jason Swails [jason.swails|,|gmail.com] --001a11c23994b04a5404f28be74e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.*. outlook.com wrote: > > Dear Aurora, > > I am not sure that the number of women or the number of men defines the > quality of a conference. It is the topics, the level of experience built in > each topic, and naturally the experience of the presenters, whether they > are men or women. I have seen both good men and good women in QM, the > latter particularly in teaching. Conferences should be organized according > to topics of research, independently of gender. Maybe this conference has > topics that are mostly covered by one gender. That does however, not stop > anyone from organizing another conference, where, occasionally, another > gender is more overrepresented. > This is the type of rationale that sustains sexism and discrimination. Should it matter if a presenter or researcher is a man or a woman? Of course not -- all that should matter is the quality of the research. I'll also lay down a crucial assumption necessary for my argument: there is no difference in innate talent for our field between men and women. The gender disparity in our field is then a direct consequence of the pervasive nature of sexism and its enduring inertia. With that stated, it then follows that when sampling blindly from the PIs that do the 'best' contemporary research in our field, the number of men and women chosen will reproduce the percentage of men and women at the forefront of our field, barring discrimination. The invited speakers for ICQC -- all ~30 of them -- are men. The gender of the speakers in this case matters because the likelihood of this happening in the ABSENCE of discrimination is very slim. (This is not unlike statistical mechanical sampling from an NVE ensemble) To me, as to many others, the blatant sexism reflected by the selection of invited speakers is embarrassing on the part of the organizers responsible. *We* [1] are not making this about sexism, the conference organizers are. All the best, Jason [1] We being those of us wanting to see the end of gender discrimination in our field and the entire workforce. -- Jason M. Swails BioMaPS, Rutgers University Postdoctoral Researcher --001a11c23994b04a5404f28be74e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:= 27 AM, Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti.*.outlook.com <owner-chemistry*ccl.net> wrote:

Dear Aurora,

=A0I am not sure that the number of women = or the number of men defines the quality of a conference. It is the topics,= the level of experience built in each topic, and naturally the experience = of the presenters, whether they are men or women. I have seen both good men= and good women in QM, the latter particularly in teaching. Conferences sho= uld be organized according to topics of research, independently of gender. = Maybe this conference has topics that are mostly covered by one gender. Tha= t does however, not stop anyone from organizing another conference, where, = occasionally, another gender is more overrepresented.

This is the type of r= ationale that sustains sexism and discrimination. =A0Should it matter if a = presenter or researcher is a man or a woman? =A0Of course not -- all that s= hould matter is the quality of the research.

I'll also lay down a crucial assumption necessary for my argument:= there is no difference in innate talent for our field between men and wome= n. =A0The gender disparity in our field is then a direct consequence of the= pervasive nature of sexism and its enduring inertia.

With that stated, it then follows that when sampling blindly from the = PIs that do the 'best' contemporary research in our field, the numb= er of men and women chosen will reproduce the percentage of men and women a= t the forefront of our field, barring discrimination. =A0The invited speake= rs for ICQC -- all ~30 of them -- are men. =A0The gender of the speakers in= this case matters because the likelihood of this happening in the ABSENCE = of discrimination is very slim. =A0(This is not unlike statistical mechanic= al sampling from an NVE ensemble)

To me, as to many others, the blatant sexism reflected by the selectio= n of invited speakers is embarrassing on the part of the organizers respons= ible. =A0*We* [1] are not making this about sexism, the conference organize= rs are.

All the best,
Jason

= [1] We being those of us wanting to see the end of gender discrimination in= our field and the entire workforce.

--
= Jason M. Swails
BioMaPS,
Rutgers University
Postdoctoral Researche= r
--001a11c23994b04a5404f28be74e-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 22:19:00 2014 From: "Matthias Heger mheger _ gwdg.de" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49712-140216154007-3756-ehlMfjciNOBb+8gEUhHMDA!=!server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Matthias Heger Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:39:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Matthias Heger [mheger**gwdg.de] This is not only a question about bad intentions, discrimination or unfortunate chance, it's ultimately about what justice is and who defines it. All of this is discussed elsewhere on much larger scales, nation-wide, up to parliaments and councils. With all the accusations and bitterness you'd care to endure, and then some. We're certainly (and unfortunately) not going to solve any of this by e-mailing each other a lot. Topics like these are lose-lose situations. Call me a pessimist, but this discussion is going to end with more harm than good done... Am 16-02-2014 14:29, schrieb ccl ccl.list.rmrmg^gmail.com: > > Sent to CCL by: ccl [ccl.list.rmrmg .. gmail.com] > "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" wrote: > >> 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not >> include a single woman. > > The speakers and chairs are from North America, Europe, > China ,South Korea and Japan. There is no single person from Africa, > muslim countries and so on and so forth, discrimination? > > Since 2000 42 persons received nobel prize in physics and 5 in > computational & theoretical chemistry both lists does not include a > single woman, discrimination? > >> more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > > compare to? how many mens have tenure in the same area? > >> Many of these women are far more distinguished than many of the men >> being invited to speak at these conferences. > > Is there any non-invited men more distinguished of invited speakers? > > (Base on my personal experience) in science in general are mainly > person from rich country. In theoretical chemistry there are very > little woman (there are much more womans in experimental chemistry). > Personally I know only one woman holding tenure in theoretical chemistry > and 20+ mens. > Is there any discrimination of woman? Base on my personal experience, > no (however I am men so maybe I cannot see it). I rather think mens are > (slightly) discriminated: I know several scholarships open to woman > only and I never heard about program adress only to men.> > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 22:54:00 2014 From: "=?UTF-8?B?R8OcTCBBTFRJTkJBxZ4gw5ZaUElOQVI=?= galtinbas%a%gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49713-140216154116-4781-l4w6aaFAp410E+/K8aEAQw||server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: =?UTF-8?B?R8OcTCBBTFRJTkJBxZ4gw5ZaUElOQVI=?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51d2eb81d079304f28c0f77 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:41:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: =?UTF-8?B?R8OcTCBBTFRJTkJBxZ4gw5ZaUElOQVI=?= [galtinbas::gmail.com] --bcaec51d2eb81d079304f28c0f77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it is also intetesting that a man who does not know the difference between gender and sex can want to talk about theoretical chemistry!!! 16 =C5=9Eub 2014 22:31 tarihinde "Ignacio Nebot-Gil Ignacio.Nebot .. uv.es"= < owner-chemistry-*-ccl.net> yazd=C4=B1: > > Sent to CCL by: Ignacio Nebot-Gil [Ignacio.Nebot . uv.es] > I fully support the boycott initiative, and we don't talk about sex but > about gender and equality in theoretical chemistry meetings > > Ignacio Nebot-Gil > Institute for Molecular Sciences > University of Valencia, Spain > > Enviado desde mi iPad > > > El 16/02/2014, a las 02:12 a.m., "zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl" > escribi=C3=B3: > > > > > > Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl] > > Well, > > could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....?? > > Please > > > > > > > > W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James brian.james.duke|a| > gmail.com napisa=C5=82(a): > >> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James " > >> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com] > >> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three poep= le > >> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member of t= he > >> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Major > >> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable balan= ce > >> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world when > >> selecting speakers. > >> > >> Brian Duke > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri > >> dirikadir[a]gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > >>> Dear Colleagues, > >>> > >>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of > >>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the > >>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > >>> > >>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the > >>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice > >>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. > >>> Even that would be unacceptable... > >>> > >>> Professor Krylov's message follows below. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Kadir > >>> --- > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear Colleague: > >>> > >>> It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry > >>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting > >>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later > >>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the > >>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > >>> http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of > >>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science > >>> (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of > >>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs > >>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. > >>> > >>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > >>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > >>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure > >>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and > >>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > >>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > >>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these > >>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited > >>> to speak at these conferences. > >>> > >>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > >>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this > >>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it > >>> will take less than a minute). > >>> > >>> Thank you for your for your support. > >>> > >>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > >>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > >>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConferences: > >>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferences/> > >> > >> -- > >> Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Brian.Salter-Duke/a\monash.edu > >> Adjunct Associate Professor > >> Monash Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences > >> Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, Australia-- > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q > > > > > > Krzysztof K. Zborowski > > Faculty of Chemistry > > Jagiellonian University > > 3 Ingardena Street > > 30-060 Krakow > > Poland > > phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067 > > fax: +48(12)634-05-15 > > email: zborowsk,chemia.uj.edu.pl > > gg 3817259 > > skype kzys70 > > > www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtm= l > > > > > > > > > > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D-> > > --bcaec51d2eb81d079304f28c0f77 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

it is also intetesting that a man who does not know the diff= erence between gender and sex can want to talk about theoretical chemistry!= !!

16 =C5=9Eub 2014 22:31 tarihinde "Ignacio N= ebot-Gil Ignacio.Nebot .. uv.es" <owner-chemistry-*-ccl.net> yazd= =C4=B1:

Sent to CCL by: Ignacio Nebot-Gil [Ignacio.Nebot . uv.es]
I fully support the boycott initiative, and we don't talk about sex but= about gender and equality in theoretical chemistry meetings

Ignacio Nebot-Gil
Institute for Molecular Sciences
University of Valencia, Spain

Enviado desde mi iPad

> El 16/02/2014, a las 02:12 a.m., "zborowsk zborowsk-*-chemia.uj.edu.pl" <o= wner-chemistry^^^ccl.net&g= t; escribi=C3=B3:
>
>
> Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]![chemia.uj.edu.pl]
> Well,
> could we talk about theoretical chemistry, not about sex....??
> Please
>
>
>
> W dniu 2014-02-16 01:10, Salter-Duke, Brian James =C2=A0brian.james.du= ke|a|gmail.com napisa=C5= =82(a):
>> Sent to CCL by: "Salter-Duke, Brian James "
>> [brian.james.duke---gmail.com]
>> I fully agree that this is not acceptable. I trust that the three = poeple
>> sponsoring this, particularly Prof. Emily Carter, who is a member = of the
>> Academy, have made their views known to the Academy directly. Majo= r
>> international conferences should make sure there is a reasonable b= alance
>> between men and women as well as from all countries in the world w= hen
>> selecting speakers.
>>
>> Brian Duke
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 02:57:48PM -0800, Kadir Diri
>> dirikadir[a]gmail.c= om wrote:
>>>
>>> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -= one of
>>> the many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding= the
>>> choice of speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
>>>
>>> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the=
>>> leading figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the c= hoice
>>> of speakers for this conference was just a statistical abnorma= lity.
>>> Even that would be unacceptable...
>>>
>>> Professor Krylov's message follows below.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Kadir
>>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Colleague:
>>>
>>> It happened again --- =C2=A0another major theoretical chemistr= y
>>> conference features an all-male program. One of us began boyco= tting
>>> such conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 ye= ars later
>>> we are still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is= the
>>> 15th International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC,
>>> http://w= ww.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of
>>> International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science
>>> (http://www= .iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of
>>> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 cha= irs
>>> and honorary chairs and does not include a single woman.
>>>
>>> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women= in
>>> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
>>> lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenu= re
>>> track academic positions or equivalent positions in industry a= nd
>>> other research establishments pursuing research in theoretical= and
>>> computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as we= ll as
>>> theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of t= hese
>>> women are far more distinguished than many of the men being in= vited
>>> to speak at these conferences.
>>>
>>> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to o= urs by
>>> signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this
>>> biased practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago= (it
>>> will take less than a minute).
>>>
>>> Thank you for your for your support.
>>>
>>> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
>>> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
>>> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern CaliforniaConference= s:
>>> http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/co= nferences/>
>>
>> --
>> =C2=A0 Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) =C2=A0 Brian.Salter-Duke/a\<= a href=3D"http://monash.edu" target=3D"_blank">monash.edu
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Adjunct Associate Professor
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Monash Institute of Pharm= aceutical Sciences
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Monash University Parkville Campus, VIC 3052, = Australia--
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DtKmW1cLzo8Q
>
>
> Krzysztof K. Zborowski
> Faculty of Chemistry
> Jagiellonian University
> 3 Ingardena Street
> 30-060 Krakow
> Poland
> phone: +48(12)632-4888 ext. 2064 or 2067
> fax: =C2=A0+48(12)634-05-15
> email: zborowsk,= chemia.uj.edu.pl
> gg 3817259
> skype kzys70
> www.chemia.uj.edu.pl/~zborowskhtt= p://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml>
>
>



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--bcaec51d2eb81d079304f28c0f77-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Feb 16 23:29:00 2014 From: "Dr. Vitaly Chaban vvchaban^gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Converges using HF and hybrid DFT, but fails to converge using pure DFT Message-Id: <-49714-140216173257-13577-qjPkUe4awBjYsVa55bvJgg/a\server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Dr. Vitaly Chaban" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:32:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Dr. Vitaly Chaban" [vvchaban[-]gmail.com] Thanks everyone for interesting suggestions. I had to finally recognize, that the basis set I initially tried to make use of, was not enough to provide a decent description of the system's wavefunction. So, the basis set was forcibly enlarged, and this removed the convergence problem. Expensive, but doable. Dr. Vitaly V. Chaban On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Cory Pye cpye,ap.smu.ca wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: Cory Pye [cpye**ap.smu.ca] > Hello, > > Another thing to try is turning off the incremental Fock matrix construction. > > SCF=(XQC,NoIncrFock) > > It appears that it is restarting the incremental Fock matrix construction > several times before not converging. > > Also make sure that the accuracy of your grid matches the accuracy of your SCF. > > -Cory > > On Tue, 11 Feb 2014, Dr. Vitaly Chaban vvchaban::gmail.com wrote: > >> >> Sent to CCL by: "Dr. Vitaly Chaban" [vvchaban/./gmail.com] >> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Sebastian Kozuch >> seb.kozuch!A!gmail.com wrote: >> > >> > Sent to CCL by: Sebastian Kozuch [seb.kozuch(a)gmail.com] >> > That happens sometimes. Pure GGA have some extra convergence difficulties. >> > You may try to take the converged orbitals in the checkpoint file from a >> > hybrid DFT and use them as a guess for the GGA, and try with scf(qc) or >> > scf(xqc). More expensive, but life is always more expensive than our >> > expectations. >> >> >> The bad thing is that even SCF=QC with Guess=Read does not work >> adequately. Below follows the logfile after a couple of hours of >> iterations. The guess came from "B3LYP/CEP-31G* SCF=Conver=9", and the >> failed convergence example used "BLYP/CEP-31G*" >> >> Unless there is no other magic way, I will have to decrease the SCF >> criterion down to what BLYP can afford. Maybe indeed a bit exotic >> system... >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Convergence criterion not met. >> SCF Done: E(RB-LYP) = -477.317424055 A.U. after 65 cycles >> NFock= 64 Conv=0.47D-05 -V/T= 2.4474 >> > > > ************* ! Dr. Cory C. Pye > ***************** ! Associate Professor > *** ** ** ** ! Theoretical and Computational Chemistry > ** * **** ! Department of Chemistry, Saint Mary's University > ** * * ! 923 Robie Street, Halifax, NS B3H 3C3 > ** * * ! cpye(a)crux.stmarys.ca http://apwww.stmarys.ca/~cpye > *** * * ** ! Ph: (902)-420-5654 FAX:(902)-496-8104 > ***************** ! > ************* ! Les Hartree-Focks (Apologies to Montreal Canadien Fans)> >