From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Mon Apr 22 07:34:01 2013 From: "Alcides Simao alsimao_._gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: AMD vs for computing Message-Id: <-48586-130422031532-24079-mkdTDpJ+yx3AP29l7XFeTQ##server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Alcides Simao Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9d70fae307efc04daedd5d8 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 09:15:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Alcides Simao [alsimao__gmail.com] --14dae9d70fae307efc04daedd5d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The majority of the tests ignore a little known feature in the AMD 8350 octo-core BIOS called HPC which tends to speed the AMD a bit more. I used two computers with this processor and I find it a winning combination of price and performance. 2013/4/22 John McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.com > Folks, > > The AMD 8 proc 8350 and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the same > parallel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster). > > Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diifference > in PASSMARK scores? > > John > > -- > John McKelvey > 10819 Middleford Pl > Ft Wayne, IN 46818 > 260-489-2160 > jmmckel.:.gmail.com > --14dae9d70fae307efc04daedd5d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The majority of the tests ignore a little known feature in= the AMD 8350 octo-core BIOS called HPC which tends to speed the AMD a bit = more. I used two computers with this processor and I find it a winning comb= ination of price and performance.


2013/4/22 Joh= n McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.com <o= wner-chemistry|-|ccl.net>
Folks,
The AMD 8 proc 8350=A0 and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the= same parallel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster).=A0

Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diif= ference in PASSMARK scores?<= br>
John=

--
John McKelvey
10819 Mid= dleford Pl
Ft Wayne, IN 46818
260-489-2160
jmmckel.:.gmail.com

--14dae9d70fae307efc04daedd5d8-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Mon Apr 22 08:09:00 2013 From: "Frank Jensen frj~!~chem.au.dk" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: SV: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal mode Message-Id: <-48587-130422065435-25693-soxG48zrlzoVVHRZBmfsyw]^[server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Frank Jensen Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D5BC00C0FB9AC34D9C8F4DC965C51689278B7B7CSRVUNIMBX07unia_" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:54:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Frank Jensen [frj%x%chem.au.dk] --_000_D5BC00C0FB9AC34D9C8F4DC965C51689278B7B7CSRVUNIMBX07unia_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan Grimme prompted me to exemplify the statement below, and share the r= esults with the CCL, so here it is. Take ethane at the HF/6-31G* level. The optimized C-H bond lengths in the s= taggered and eclipsed forms are 1.0853 and 1.0846 =C5, respectively Following the lowest normal mode in Cartesian coordinates gives the followi= ng set of connected torsional angles and C-H bond distances: 60 ... 1.085 37 ... 1.105 26 ... 1.128 16 ... 1.160 In Cartesian coordinates the rotation is therefore coupled to C-H bond chan= ges, and the coupling is in the wrong direction. Since the C-H bonds are st= iff, this will dominate the energy profile along that normal mode. Alternatively, if the vibrational analysis is done in internal coordinates,= the lowest vibration is a pure torsional mode, and thus completely uncoupl= ed from C-H bond stretches and bending, i.e. it corresponds to a rotation w= ith frozen bond distances and angles. This is of course also incorrect, but= I would argue that it is a better zero'th order approximation to the 'true= ' rotational motion than the mode in Cartesian coordinates. Alternatively stated, the size of the harmonic region depends on the choice= of coordinates, in internal coordinates the mode can be followed further o= ut before the deviation in energy between the 'mode following'-curve and th= e 'true'-adiabatic curve becomes significant. Frank Frank Jensen Assoc. Prof. Dept. of Chemistry Aarhus University http://old.chem.au.dk/~frj > From: owner-chemistry+frj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk],[ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry+f= rj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk],[ccl.net] On Behalf Of Frank Jensen frj.:.chem.au.dk Sent: 18. april 2013 09:44 To: Frank Jensen Subject: CCL:G: SV: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal mode The harmonic frequencies are independent of the coordinates used for the an= alysis, but any finite displacement along the corresponding normal modes de= pends strongly on the coordinates used for the analysis. Essentially all st= andard programs use Cartesian coordinates, but these are usually poor for r= epresenting the actual vibrational motion for a non-trivial displacement. C= alculating the energy along a Cartesian normal mode displacement is unlikel= y to give an accurate picture of the vibrational potential along that norma= l mode. If you doubt that, try following the Cartesian version of the norma= l mode describing the rotation around the C -C bond in ethane, and you will= rapidly discover that it significantly alters the C-H bond distances as we= ll. Performing the vibrational analysis in e.g. internal coordinates will g= ive a much better representation for large displacements, but few programs = have that capability. Frank Frank Jensen Assoc. Prof. Dept. of Chemistry Aarhus University http://old.chem.au.dk/~frj > From: owner-chemistry+frj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk]=3Dcl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry= +frj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk]=3Dcl.net] On Behalf Of Jens Spanget-Larsen spanget**r= uc.dk Sent: 17. april 2013 19:14 To: Frank Jensen Subject: CCL:G: SV: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal mode Dear Devandra, I do not think Gaussian has a procedure to do this. Some time ago I perform= ed analyses of the so-called bell-clapper vibrational mode of 1,6,6a-trithi= apentalene by scanning along the normal coordinate. The energy was calculat= ed for a series of points corresponding to displacement of the nuclei along= the coordinate. You can find the results and some relationships in: Spange= t-Larsen & Andersen, PCCP 3, 908-16 (2001). Jens >--< ------------------------------------------------------ JENS SPANGET-LARSEN Office: +45 4674 2710 Dept. of Science (18.1) Fax: +45 4674 3011 Roskilde University Mobile: +45 2320 6246 P.O.Box 260 E-Mail: spanget++ruc.dk DK-4000 Roskilde, Denmark http://www.ruc.dk/~spanget ------------------------------------------------------ ________________________________ Fra: owner-chemistry+spanget=3D=3Druc.dk++ccl.net [owner-chemistry+spanget= =3D=3Druc.dk++ccl.net] p=E5 vegne af Devendra Mani devdmani10%a%gmail.com [= owner-chemistry++ccl.net] Sendt: 17. april 2013 15:32 Til: Jens Spanget-Larsen Emne: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal mode Dear CCLers, I want to scan potential energy along a particular normal mode of vibrat= ion . Is there anyway to do it using Gaussian or any other software ? Any kind of suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks, Devendra --_000_D5BC00C0FB9AC34D9C8F4DC965C51689278B7B7CSRVUNIMBX07unia_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stefan Grimme prompted me= to exemplify the statement below, and share the results with the CCL, so h= ere it is.

 <= /p>

Take ethane at the HF/6-3= 1G* level. The optimized C-H bond lengths in the staggered and eclipsed for= ms are 1.0853 and 1.0846 =C5, respectively<= /o:p>

Following the lowest normal mode in Cartesian coordinates gives th= e following set of connected torsional angles and C-H bond distances:<= /o:p>

60 … 1.085

37 … 1.105

26 … 1.128

16 … 1.160

In Cartesian coordinates the rotation is therefore coupled to C-H = bond changes, and the coupling is in the wrong direction. Since the C-H bon= ds are stiff, this will dominate the energy profile along that normal mode.

Alternatively, if the vibrational analysis is done in internal coo= rdinates, the lowest vibration is a pure torsional mode, and thus completel= y uncoupled from C-H bond stretches and bending, i.e. it corresponds to a rotation with frozen bond distances = and angles. This is of course also incorrect, but I would argue that it is = a better zero’th order approximation to the ‘true’ rotati= onal motion than the mode in Cartesian coordinates.

Alternatively stated, the size of the harmonic region depends on t= he choice of coordinates, in internal coordinates the mode can be followed = further out before the deviation in energy between the ‘mode following’-curve and the ‘true&= #8217;-adiabatic curve becomes significant.

Frank

 <= /p>

Frank Jensen
Assoc. Prof.
Dept. of Chemistry
Aarhus University
http://old.chem.au= .dk/~frj

 <= /p>

From: owner-ch= emistry+frj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk],[ccl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry+frj=3D= =3Dchem.au.dk],[ccl.net] On Behalf Of Frank Jensen frj.:.chem.au.dk
Sent: 18. april 2013 09:44
To: Frank Jensen
Subject: CCL:G: SV: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal = mode

 

The harmonic frequencies = are independent of the coordinates used for the analysis, but any finite di= splacement along the corresponding normal modes depends strongly on the coordinates used for the analysis. Essentially all standar= d programs use Cartesian coordinates, but these are usually poor for repres= enting the actual vibrational motion for a non-trivial displacement. Calcul= ating the energy along a Cartesian normal mode displacement is unlikely to give an accurate picture of the vi= brational potential along that normal mode. If you doubt that, try followin= g the Cartesian version of the normal mode describing the rotation around t= he C –C bond in ethane, and you will rapidly discover that it significantly alters the C-H bond distances = as well. Performing the vibrational analysis in e.g. internal coordinates w= ill give a much better representation for large displacements, but few prog= rams have that capability.

 <= /p>

Frank

 <= /p>

Frank Jensen
Assoc. Prof.
Dept. of Chemistry
Aarhus University
http://old.chem.au= .dk/~frj

 <= /p>

From: owner-ch= emistry+frj=3D=3Dchem.au.dk]=3Dcl.net [mailto:owner-chemistry+frj= =3D=3Dchem.au.dk]=3Dcl.net] On Behalf Of Jens Spanget-Larsen spanget**ruc.dk
Sent: 17. april 2013 19:14
To: Frank Jensen
Subject: CCL:G: SV: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal = mode

 

Dear Devandra,

I do not think Gaussian has a procedure to do this. Some time ago = I performed analyses of the so-called bell-clapper vibrational mode of 1,6,= 6a-trithiapentalene by scanning along the normal coordinate. The energy was calculated for a series of points cor= responding to displacement of the nuclei along the coordinate. You can= find the results and some relationships in: Spanget-Larsen & Ande= rsen, PCCP 3, 908-16 (2001).

Jens >--<

 

  ------------------------------------------------------

  JENS SPANGET-LARSEN      &nbs= p;  Office:      +45 4674 2710

  Dept. of Science (18.1)     Fax: &= nbsp;       +45 4674 3011

  Roskilde University      &nbs= p;  Mobile:      +45 2320 6246

  P.O.Box 260        =          E-Mail:   &= nbsp; spanget++ruc.dk

  DK-4000 Roskilde, Denmark   http://www.ruc.dk/~spanget

  ------------------------------------------------------

 


Fra: owner-chemistry+spanget= =3D=3Druc.dk++ccl.net [owner-chemistry+spanget=3D=3Druc.dk++ccl.net] p=E5 vegne af D= evendra Mani devdmani10%a%gmail.com [owner-chemistry++ccl.net]
Sendt: 17. april 2013 15:32
Til: Jens Spanget-Larsen
Emne: CCL:G: Scanning potential energy along a normal mode

Dear CCLers, =

   I want to s= can potential energy along a particular normal mode of vibration . Is there= anyway to do it using Gaussian or any other software ?

Any kind of suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,

Devendra

 =

--_000_D5BC00C0FB9AC34D9C8F4DC965C51689278B7B7CSRVUNIMBX07unia_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Mon Apr 22 12:50:00 2013 From: "Francois Zielinski francois.zielinski_+_manchester.ac.uk" To: CCL Subject: CCL: AMD vs for computing Message-Id: <-48588-130422093754-13724-fpUGS4QmSpjaCMEn/KzFbQ]*[server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Francois Zielinski Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3068BCD5C0404D4E9C44F64F4000B64224B724MBXP02dsmanacuk_" Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 13:37:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Francois Zielinski [francois.zielinski%manchester.ac.uk] --_000_3068BCD5C0404D4E9C44F64F4000B64224B724MBXP02dsmanacuk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great tip Alcides ! Thanks, I was not aware of that : do you know what is a= djusted exactly ? Re the AMD 8350 vs Intel 3770, it is expected to see similar passmark score= s, since the 3770 has Hyper-threading (that doubles the number of threads a= physical core can handle). IMHO, AMD cpu can be great choices if the entry price is the issue and not = the electric consumption. That is to say, if you plan to buy a machine for the long term* and have it= fully loaded 24/7, I guess the extra-price of an Intel cpu would be compen= sated by its reduced electric consumption within months/years. Conversely, if you are not entitled directly to the electricity bill of you= r machine ;) , and/or plan to run only occasional jobs on it, AMD is the wa= y to go. * I am not talking about possible cpu upgrades, here AMD would be a good ch= oice. They stayed pretty socket-conservative/compatible. Fran=E7ois ________________________________ > From: owner-chemistry+francois.zielinski=3D=3Dmanchester.ac.uk(_)ccl.net [own= er-chemistry+francois.zielinski=3D=3Dmanchester.ac.uk(_)ccl.net] on behalf of= Alcides Simao alsimao_._gmail.com [owner-chemistry(_)ccl.net] Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:15 AM To: Francois Zielinski Subject: CCL: AMD vs for computing The majority of the tests ignore a little known feature in the AMD 8350 oct= o-core BIOS called HPC which tends to speed the AMD a bit more. I used two = computers with this processor and I find it a winning combination of price = and performance. 2013/4/22 John McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.com > Folks, The AMD 8 proc 8350 and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the same para= llel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster). Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diifference in= PASSMARK scores? John -- John McKelvey 10819 Middleford Pl Ft Wayne, IN 46818 260-489-2160 jmmckel.:.gmail.com --_000_3068BCD5C0404D4E9C44F64F4000B64224B724MBXP02dsmanacuk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Great tip Alcides ! Thanks, I was not aware of that : do you know wh= at is adjusted exactly ?

Re the AMD 8350 vs Intel 3770, it is expected to see similar passmark score= s, since the 3770 has Hyper-threading (that doubles the number of threads a= physical core can handle).

IMHO, AMD cpu can be great choices if the entry price is the issue and not = the electric consumption.
That is to say, if you plan to buy a machine for the long term* and have it= fully loaded 24/7, I guess the extra-price of an Intel cpu would be compen= sated by its reduced electric consumption within months/years.
Conversely, if you are not entitled directly to the electricity bill of you= r machine ;) , and/or plan to run only occasional jobs on it, AMD is the wa= y to go.

* I am not talking about possible cpu upgrades, here AMD would be a good ch= oice. They stayed pretty socket-conservative/compatible.

Fran=E7ois

From: owner-chemistry+francois.zielin= ski=3D=3Dmanchester.ac.uk(_)ccl.net [owner-chemistry+francois.zielinski= =3D=3Dmanchester.ac.uk(_)ccl.net] on behalf of Alcides Simao alsimao_._gmail.= com [owner-chemistry(_)ccl.net]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 8:15 AM
To: Francois Zielinski
Subject: CCL: AMD vs for computing

The majority of the tests ignore a little known feature in= the AMD 8350 octo-core BIOS called HPC which tends to speed the AMD a bit = more. I used two computers with this processor and I find it a winning comb= ination of price and performance.


2013/4/22 John McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.com <owner-chemistry(_)ccl.net>
Folks,

The AMD 8 proc 8350  and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the same= parallel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster). 

Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diifference in= PASSMARK scores?

John

--
John McKelvey
10819 Middleford Pl
Ft Wayne, IN 46818
260-489-2160
jmmckel.:.gmail.com =

--_000_3068BCD5C0404D4E9C44F64F4000B64224B724MBXP02dsmanacuk_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Mon Apr 22 13:25:00 2013 From: "John McKelvey jmmckel||gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: AMD vs for computing Message-Id: <-48589-130422101358-15756-tObad7x9ufgPNy3mD5hV4w(~)server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: John McKelvey Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3ba457947ee304daf3adaf Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:13:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: John McKelvey [jmmckel..gmail.com] --e89a8f3ba457947ee304daf3adaf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Alcides, Could you comment on what codes you are running on the 8350, and any issues you had? Thanks, John On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Alcides Simao alsimao_._gmail.com < owner-chemistry.(~).ccl.net> wrote: > The majority of the tests ignore a little known feature in the AMD 8350 > octo-core BIOS called HPC which tends to speed the AMD a bit more. I used > two computers with this processor and I find it a winning combination of > price and performance. > > > 2013/4/22 John McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.com > >> Folks, >> >> The AMD 8 proc 8350 and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the same >> parallel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster). >> >> Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diifference >> in PASSMARK scores? >> >> John >> >> -- >> John McKelvey >> 10819 Middleford Pl >> Ft Wayne, IN 46818 >> 260-489-2160 >> jmmckel.:.gmail.com >> > > -- John McKelvey 10819 Middleford Pl Ft Wayne, IN 46818 260-489-2160 jmmckel.(~).gmail.com --e89a8f3ba457947ee304daf3adaf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alcides,

Could you comment on = what codes you are running on the 8350, and any issues you had?

Thanks,

John


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Alcides Simao alsimao_._gmail.com <owner-chemistry.(~).ccl.net> wro= te:
The majority of the tests i= gnore a little known feature in the AMD 8350 octo-core BIOS called HPC whic= h tends to speed the AMD a bit more. I used two computers with this process= or and I find it a winning combination of price and performance.


2013/4/22 Joh= n McKelvey jmmckel:-:gmail.c= om <owner-chemistry(_)ccl.net>
Folks,
The AMD 8 proc 8350=A0 and the Intel 3770 4 proc have the about the= same parallel PASSMARK values (Intel less than 10% faster).=A0

Thoughts about choosing the AMD over the Intel, ignoring the diif= ference in PASSMARK scores?

John

-- =
John McKelvey
10819 Middleford Pl
Ft Wayne, IN 46818
260-489-2160=
jmmckel.:.gmail.co= m




--
John McKelvey
10819 = Middleford Pl
Ft Wayne, IN 46818
260-489-2160
jmmckel.(~).gmail.com
--e89a8f3ba457947ee304daf3adaf--